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| Name: |
Lady
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| Subject: |
Cheney
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Date:
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7/15/2009 12:19:22 AM
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Any opinions about the recently discovered secret CIA program? Torture, spying, detention and rendition!
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If it is true I applaud anyone that was gaining information to keep us safe after such a horrific terrorist attack on 9/11.
I knew people killed in the WTC. I was in NYC and left the night before on 9/10. I changed my flight as I was suppose to leave on 9/11. I was in the WTC for a meeting on 9/9.
It is very close to home for me and I appauld everything Bush/Chenney did to respond and gain information to protect us from further attacks. Because you can be sure if we did not, there would have been many more ... as we saw under Clinton as he ignored one attack after another, which ultimately led to 9/11.
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As I understand it, it was just a plan, not implemented. It's not unusual to develop notional plans that address a wide variety of situations. After 9/11, I'm sure a number of plans were developed. It's hard to say what Cheney had in mind and under what circumstances it may have been implemented. There is much to this story that will never see the light of day because I'm sure it's classified, and some of it will invoke executive privilege. And without knowing the whole story, it's dangerous to draw conclusions as to whether this is sinister or just intelligence planning.
Additionally, according to what I am hearing, the law is ambiguous on whether it should have been briefed to Congress and when. I think this Administration needs to be very careful because you don't want to create a CIA that is adverse to taking risks in order to get intelligence. I think we have to remind ourselves that most of us would have condoned anything right after 9/11; however, we are now looking at this some 8 years later.
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| Name: |
lotowner
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| Subject: |
Cheney
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Date:
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7/15/2009 7:52:24 AM
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I'm with you WW. We need to use available technology and resources to protect this country.
I do have a concern with the current administration about abuse of power and the potential for disguising efforts against terrorism as a means of absolute control over US citizens. Anyone who is willing to speak out (IE, the firefighter) is in front of the firing squad (the media). The next time someone is asked to testify before congress, they will think twice.
For the first time in my life, I fear that this country could become another Venezuela. The only question that I have is who will become the new Chavez. Our Senate and House have become puppets. Whatever Obama wants, he gets. Czars everywhere with Congress having no power over them. Only the President and he has total power.
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| Name: |
MrHodja
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| Subject: |
Cheney
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Date:
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7/15/2009 7:52:58 AM
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Lady will apparently never understand that. A fair number of the clowns in our National Circus (Congress) are interested in job security, not national security, and can't be trusted with classified national security information.
You can't blame the CIA for holding on until firm plans are made, then complying with the law. Now had such a plan (at least as has been described in the media) been executed without proper notification IAW the law, that would be a different matter.
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| Name: |
Lady
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| Subject: |
MrHodja
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Date:
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7/15/2009 8:32:58 AM
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"Lady will apparently never understand that."
What is it that I 'apparently' will never understand? How do you know what I understand? Jeez.......
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| Name: |
MrHodja
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| Subject: |
MrHodja
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Date:
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7/15/2009 8:40:09 AM
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All I have to go on is your posts....maybe you are just baiting us...you seem to look for anything and everything to try (and fail) to counter logic, reason, and historical fact.
And BTW why are you so afraid of Palin? On this forum you seem to be the only one interested in talking about her. I don't think she has shown herself to be ready to lead the country either, but why do you keep bashing her? She is old news.
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| Name: |
AUCATZ
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| Subject: |
Agree with WW and Hound...
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Date:
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7/15/2009 8:42:40 AM
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We have been kept safe since 9/11 from people who have no ethics, no morals as we know them, and no value of human life. Why should we denounce these policies 8 years after the fact?
Personally, I get really ill hearing folks talk about this stuff now. Our President, etc. reacted to the worst attack in our history in every way they could to prevent another attack, and preserve our country. Yet, now they are under attack from a group of our own citizens??? All I want to know is what in the world are Ya'll thinking? IMHO we got into this mess in the first place because the likes of Jimmy Carter and Bill Clinton took the 'let's all be friends and play nice' approach in the first place. Al Qaida, et al, don't want to be friends. Geez.
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| Name: |
MartiniMan
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| Subject: |
Cover for Madame Speaker
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Date:
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7/15/2009 9:03:46 AM
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This is so much ado about nothing and is only intended to provide cover for Pelosi and her bald-faced lies about waterboarding. I have come to the conclusion that Dems in Congress stopped maturing at age 8. Only a child would try to use an unrelated piece of information to cover for a lie when caught red-handed. But then again your average 8 year old doesn't have the government media to cover a non-event as if it vindicates a liar like Pelosi.
As for the plans that were never executed, I wish they had.
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| Name: |
MartiniMan
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| Subject: |
Great Post
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Date:
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7/15/2009 10:20:38 AM
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Hound: I know this will just kill your credibility with the leftists like Lady and Archie but this is a great post and I agree with every single word of it. Sorry about that! :-)
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| Name: |
Lady
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| Subject: |
Great Post
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Date:
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7/15/2009 10:46:13 AM
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I don't want to 'kill your credibility' MartiniMan, but I agree with Hound. Pretty presumptious of you to assume what I think about all subjects.
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| Name: |
Lady
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| Subject: |
MrHodja
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Date:
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7/15/2009 10:56:15 AM
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With all due respect, MrHodja, I did introduce the thread about Peggy Noonan's column. I think she's a respected columnist and thought her opinion had merit and others that read the forum might be interested. I am not 'afraid' of Palin and I have not been bashing her. And I clearly am not the only one talking about her. In that thread alone, Talullahhound posted 11 times, MartiniMan posted 3, alahusker posted 6, waterwatcher posted 6, au67 posted 4, and even you and lamont each had 2 things to say. I had 5 responses and if you'd read them, they were all in direct response to a question asked or in defense (was told that I called her evil, which I did not) of a statement.
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| Name: |
lamont
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| Subject: |
"Paranoia can destroy ya"-NT
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Date:
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7/15/2009 11:36:00 AM
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| Name: |
MartiniMan
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| Subject: |
You misunderstand me
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Date:
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7/15/2009 12:02:45 PM
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I didn't opine whether or not you agreed with her or not, just that my agreement with her would hurt her credibility with you and Archie. I am encouraged that you agree with something that I agree with. Doesn't bother me in the least because I believe in what is right regardless of the source.
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| Name: |
Talullahhound
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| Subject: |
Cover for Madame Speaker
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Date:
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7/15/2009 2:47:39 PM
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Heard a brief commentary this morning that said that the situation was never quite right for implementation, which could mean a variety of things.
You know, I have to pinch myself back to reality sometimes. I think in the aftermath of 9/11, if the President had told the nation that we were going to seek out the prepatrators, torture them and assassinate them, the country would have applauded. I'm sure a wide variety of stuff was discussed, probably some of it pretty wild. Some of it was probably dropped or shelved as information became available. We have mostly forgotten how members of the Arab community danced in the streets that we had been attacked.
It's now been almost 8 years. It's easy to forget how everyone felt back then. It's easy to take an objective view now and say "isn't it awful". If we villianize the CIA now, and prosecute Cheney and whoever else, in the future, our agencies will be too afraid to do what needs to be done. When I feel that I don't like torture, I remind myself that I don't much like seeing American citizens beheaded either. But, there it is.
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| Name: |
Summer Lover
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| Subject: |
Cheney
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Date:
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7/15/2009 4:17:13 PM
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Let me see... Our military and intel people have done what was needed to protect our shores. At times, the borders and boundaries have been blurred, and I can live with that. It is when politicians stand on their soapboxes that we face our greatest risks. If a criminal attempts to do me or mine harm - I will do my best to neutralize the threat. I cannot do the same when the property extends to the borders of the United States and rely on those fine servicemen and women to act in my proxy. We will never win a conflict if we play only from the defense playbook, and I will bet that neither you nor I want to know everything that they have done to keep us safe in the past.
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| Name: |
Talullahhound
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| Subject: |
No we Don't
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Date:
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7/15/2009 5:20:15 PM
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And I can also tell you that if any of us really knew what was going on in the world on any given day, it would scare the h*ll out of us. Better that we don't know.
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| Name: |
MrHodja
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| Subject: |
No we Don't
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Date:
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7/15/2009 5:27:33 PM
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If we knew what was really going on in OUR OWN COUNTRY it would scare the he!! out of us as well. There are some mean and sick folks out there.
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| Name: |
Talullahhound
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| Subject: |
No we Don't
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Date:
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7/15/2009 8:35:49 PM
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yeah. Not to mention terrorist cells that may be just waiting.
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| Name: |
Summer Lover
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| Subject: |
No we Don't
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Date:
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7/15/2009 10:08:43 PM
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Absolutely, and they will not have to wait long. I have had friends in the past who were “operators” before operators were cool – we called them SEALS, Green Berets, and Rangers. I have heard the stories of far off (and not so far) lands where they practiced their trades in the 60’s and 70’s. Places that uh .. WE never were, and skills that WE would never use. If someone feels that we can follow all the rules and still minimize the loss of American lives, the word naïve comes to mind. Please line up single file and follow one another around the schoolyard at recess, look up and enjoy the beautiful sky, but pay no attention to the people dressed in black with an American flag on their shoulders – they mean nothing to you anyway.
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