(Shores Lake Specific)
0 messages
Updated
Lakes Online Forum
83,970 messages
Updated 9/20/2024 6:59:11 PM
Lakes Online Forum
5,204 messages
Updated 9/14/2024 10:10:50 AM
(Shores Lake Specific)
0 messages
Updated
Lakes Online Forum
4,172 messages
Updated 9/9/2024 5:04:44 PM
Lakes Online Forum
4,261 messages
Updated 5/28/2024 6:31:10 AM
Lakes Online Forum
2,979 messages
Updated 6/26/2024 5:03:03 AM
Lakes Online Forum
98 messages
Updated 4/15/2024 1:00:58 AM
|
|
|
| Name: |
water_watcher
- 
|
|
| Subject: |
Talullahhound
|
|
Date:
|
1/29/2009 7:24:11 AM
|
hey, where have you been? Are you still hung over from all the partying in Washington?
Only teasing ... we have missed your insight and comments.
What do you think about BO and the dems printing money for all this pork they have in the stimulus bill that will not create one new job. Now don't get me wrong, I do think there are "some" good parts of the package. But even the highest projects of jobs that will be greated with this spending comes out to well over $200,000 per job created.
Not sure we could not have created 2.5 million in new jobs over 3 years (as has been done in the past) with tax cuts and business incentives for well less than half the amount of money .... and those would be non government jobs. Creating 600,000 new government jobs will never go away and we the tax payer will pay for those FOREVER !
|
| Name: |
Talullahhound
-
|
|
| Subject: |
Talullahhound
|
|
Date:
|
1/29/2009 6:21:34 PM
|
I've been taking a break.
I'm not at all happy about the new stimulus. I'm sure that there are parts of it that will help, but some of it seems like pure BS. I'm disgusted about increasing the debt and mortgaging the future of the country.
I know a lot of people that have lost or are the verge of losing their jobs. I've been trying to help the economy by spending money, but it's not making a difference.
|
| Name: |
au67
-
|
|
| Subject: |
Talullahhound
|
|
Date:
|
1/29/2009 7:18:22 PM
|
Government spending won't help either. GIve some incentives to corporations, businesses and investors, and you will see immediate benefit.
|
| Name: |
MartiniMan
-
|
|
| Subject: |
The Forgotten Man
|
|
Date:
|
1/29/2009 9:15:16 PM
|
I am reading a history of the depression called The Forgotten Man by Amity Shlaes that is very interesting. Some parrallels to today in terms of the collapse in confidence in the banking system and the various responses by industry and the government. More to read to come to any conclusions but it seems clear that what didn't work was trade tariffs, allowing banks to fail and government public works programs.
|
| Name: |
Talullahhound
-
|
|
| Subject: |
The Forgotten Man
|
|
Date:
|
1/29/2009 10:46:15 PM
|
I keep trying to figure out this government jobs thing. I see it referred to, but it's not clear to me what these government jobs will be involved in doing. Can't figure out if they creating some new functions or what. The first time I saw it, they were talking about the FBI which made some sense regarding law enforcement functions.
I've heard you say before that the WPA was a failure, but why was it a failure? I don't know much about it other than it was a jobs program that dealt with building roads and bridges, I guess, infrastructure? It seems to me logical that it would be something useful, but obviously it didn't work before.
|
| Name: |
MartiniMan
-
|
|
| Subject: |
The Forgotten Man
|
|
Date:
|
1/30/2009 10:31:53 AM
|
Hound: It wasn't so much that the WPA or any of the government programs didn't accomplish some good. It was just that all these programs were intended to spur the economy and while there is some economic benefit it is not sufficient given the cost nor long lasting for several reasons.
First of all, how is it funded? We all know where the money ultimately comes from, the taxpayers. So if you raise taxes you are simply robbing Peter (who is productive) to pay Paul with a wildly inefficient middleman (the government). Either way, Peter has less money or incentive to invest, grow a business, start a business, etc. Alternatively, you could do what Congress is proposing which is in essence to print money to pay for the government programs. This raises the specter of stagflation on the one hand and alternatively will ultimately cost the taxpayers at some point in the form of increased taxes which will depress the economy.
Second of all, from a purely historical perspective it is clear that the worldwide depression manifested itself as the "Great Depression" in the U.S. Part of this was due to the early actions and inaction of the Hoover Administration. For example, he should have never signed the law increasing tariffs because our trading partners retaliated and trade dropped 40% in one year. But when Roosevelt was elected he took almost the opposite tact and believed government was the "beneficient hand" to spend into prosperity. And so he implemented huge government programs and inserted government into business in a way it had never been done before. If you look at the economic data it is crystal clear that it simply didn't work and we continued for another 7 years in economic malaise.
What will end a recession is investment by business which will create jobs and improve consumer confidence. Government has a definite role to play in this process but the kind of spending that is proposed in the current economic stimulus package will not work as intended and is a huge waste of the people's money. The best solution for short-term stimulus is permanent tax cuts and credits that will stimulate business investment. The stimulus package costs $275,000 for every job created. If you gave me that very same $275,000 I will create 10 jobs paying between $65,000 and $125,000 per year. That is why I think they are all wrong and it won't work.
|
| Name: |
Talullahhound
-
|
|
| Subject: |
The Forgotten Man
|
|
Date:
|
1/30/2009 6:25:43 PM
|
Thank you for historical perspective.
You know, I have actually been hearing a lot of experts saying the same thing about giving the incentives to business as a smart solution. Of course, most of these are business people, but nonetheless very smart business people who have taken ailing companies and turned them around. In fact, one of my old bosses used to tell me that in business, research (and jobs) followed the money. He had been an executive with Northrup Grumman and came into the govt as a public service. Lasted about 3 years, got disgusted and left again. It can be very disheartening trying to change things in the government.
There are a dozen things about the stimulus packages that bother me. And I have a sort of sinking feeling about them mostly because it is not real clear to me how some components are actually going to stimulate the economy. The government job thing I think is okay if it is adding law enforcement positions, but it's hardly going to save the economy.
I'm disgusted with the Congress. No leadership. Obama's trying to charm them, but he's wasting his time. They'll enjoy his hospitality and do what they want to anyway.
|
| Name: |
MartiniMan
-
|
|
| Subject: |
The Forgotten Man
|
|
Date:
|
2/2/2009 8:46:04 AM
|
Hound: Order the book by Amity Shlaes. It is on Amazon and is interesting to read about the past. She skewers Hoover (Republican) and FDR and rightly so.
|
|
|
New Post
Search
Off-Topic Forum
Reply
»
Arkansas Lakes
»
Shores Lake
Login
|
Home
