Name:	Carlson -	Reply
Subject:	Who done it!
Date:	9/26/2019 2:57:25 PM

guiliani?

Name:	phil -	Reply
Subject:	Who done it!
Date:	9/26/2019 3:17:30 PM

Ill bet it was someone in the intelligence community either in a circle echo chamber of "get Trump", someone spoon fed informaiton to leak to the press and he went a different direction. 

Or 

as I have seen conspiracy theories someone with coordination with the IC or house intelligence committies to set this up.

Did anyone else get to watch Adam Schift admit that during a DNI hearing/impeachment inq./these serious times facing us that he is spending his time doing parody?  His "parody" of the transcript that he already had access to is about as factual as GFY or Antifatech.

Start at around 4:04 for the "parody" which he only said was parody after being called out for his BS.  Why would he not just read the presidents words instead of making crap up.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GN4CJ8MYLTY

Name:	phil -	Reply
Subject:	Who done it!
Date:	9/26/2019 3:58:55 PM (updated 9/26/2019 3:59:32 PM)

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/whistle-blower-is-a-cia-officer-who-was-detailed-to-the-white-house/ar-AAHToDz

WASHINGTON — The whistle-blower who revealed that President Trump sought foreign help for his re-election and that the White House sought to cover it up is a C.I.A. officer who was detailed to work at the White House at one point, according to three people familiar with his identity.

Yup, one of the same people who sat around Oblamer dreaming up the Russia Russia Russia hoax.  

Its only a matter of time before he gets named, instead of letting the letter go through proper channels they wanted to get it out in the public which is why he or his lawyers addressed it to Adam Schiff and leaked to the press since they felt it was not getting them where they wanted and they could attempt to spin it as Trump was quashing his report.

I keeps thinking that demonrats will wise up at some point, but they keep suprising me at how low and dishonest they can be.

Name:	GoneFishin -	Reply
Subject:	Who done it!
Date:	9/26/2019 4:14:43 PM (updated 9/26/2019 4:20:32 PM)

"instead of letting the letter go through proper channels"

You missed the BIG issue....the transcript would never get out as the WH established a separate computer system to store transcripts damaging to Trump. Think Watergate...

"White House lawyers directed White House officials to remove the electronic transcript of the Zelensky call from the computer system where such transcripts normally are stored. That transcript then was loaded into a “separate electronic system” that is otherwise used to store and handle classified information of an especially sensitive nature. “One White House official described this act as an abuse of this electronic system because the call did not contain anything remotely sensitive from a national security perspective.”"

Name:	Carlson -	Reply
Subject:	Who done it!
Date:	9/26/2019 4:29:25 PM

If it don’t fit you must impeach!  

Lets take a vote on the House floor.  

Name:	phil -	Reply
Subject:	Who done it!
Date:	9/26/2019 4:35:21 PM

Nope, you missed the big issue in that the whistleblower report was looked at and was decided that it was crap, and the whistleblower with his butthurt feelings that it was not going anywhere sent it to the demonrats to bypass all the rules created to protect mr whistleblower and have it turn into a House/Media impeachment of the century.  Well he got the public part of it, and all that is going to come with it.  I am amazed you still want to try to spin this as a positve when Biden was just torpedoed and it with more hearings regarding Ukraine may actually get to Hillarys involvement in the Russia hoax.

So please enlighten me more as to those "BIG ISSUES" - you only make yourself look more foolish for worshipping Hillary and Obama's lawlessness. 

I can only laugh so much, Watergate... I am pretty sure that is not chicken salad, but chicken chit.

Name:	GoneFishin -	Reply
Subject:	Who done it!
Date:	9/26/2019 4:48:15 PM

From FOX:

"Utah Republican Rep. Chris Stewart announced on Fox News' "The Ingraham Angle" and on social media late Wednesday that the explosive whistleblower complaint concerning President Trump's July call with Ukraine's leader has been declassified -- and Stewart said that it doesn't contain any damning information."

It was declassified and released. Whistleblower had nothing to do with the release. As to Clinton and Obama...what do they have to do with it? They didn't talk to Ukraine...Trump did. You sound like Trump...blame someone else when he screws up.

My question...why did he release the transcript???? He hasn't released anything else...everything is executive privilege.

Name:	lucky67 -	Reply
Subject:	Who done it!
Date:	9/26/2019 4:58:51 PM

im amazed how many on this forum down here in the boondocks have so much inside info on D.C & WH inside dealings ! im headed there Sunday so maybe i can get some inside scoop to relay back.

Name:	phil -	Reply
Subject:	Who done it!
Date:	9/26/2019 5:18:06 PM

Because in this day and age he is again having to prove that he did nothing wrong because idiots like you are parroting information that was received by a lefty somewhere between 3rd and 42nd hand.

You must not have read the transcript carefully regarding the "favor" - CrowdStrike is the key term.  The same one that looked into the DNC server, and where shortly after the "favor" and "crowdstrike" is the mention of the Ukraine possible being in posession of the server.

I am not going to do your legwork for you but it does appear that Crowdstrike donates heavily to democrats, and many have ties directly to the Clintons - imagine that.  Hillary and Democrats want to use a foreign government to meddle in our elections and that is A-OK but Trump asking a country to look into corruption surrounding the 2016 election - OMG IMPEACH!!!!!!!

As I think you and Archie have said several times in the past - no one is above the law, even the POTUS should be investigated  - but apparently your crowing does not apply to getting to the bottom of the election 2016 Russia hoax or Biden strong arming an ally for personal gain.

Name:	Carlson -	Reply
Subject:	Call for a vote!
Date:	9/26/2019 5:52:20 PM

Educating myself on the various issues requires some work but not that hard.

we the general public are tired of all the crap from both sides.  Call for a vote to start a real emplacement inquiry.  I suspect it won’t happen and this nonsense dies on the vine.  Otherwise call for a vote already. American people are not dumb.  

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	Who done it!
Date:	9/26/2019 9:27:43 PM

I watched all of it today, and read though the whistleblowers complaint.  As part of the normal interagency process, the details of the conversation would normally be made available for those with a need to know.  People might have discussed it within the interagency - in this case, WH, NSC, DNI and State.  That is not unusual.  When the Whistleblower said that they "locked down" the transcript, and put it in a special data base, I have a feeling they are talking about something under "special compartmentalized" information which someone would have access to only if they were "read on" and had a need to know.  Why would that step be taken based on the phone call that was revealed?

Let's face it, the DNI realized he had a hot potato, and he was getting as much legal cover as he could before he turned that complaint over to Congress.  Another note:  Congress is like a sieve and one of th biggest leaks to the media.  So he consulted his own lawyers, WH lawyers and Justice Department lawyers and that took longer than the designated time line.  

I don't think the phone call in and of itself is the problem- it is the actions taken after the phone call, ie. Guiliani and the American Ambassadors involved - despite what the President Ukraine is now saying, he clearly got a message that needed to be "navigated" vis a vis Trump's "request for a favor".  The fact of Trump getting Guliani involved is bad - as G. is his personal lawyer, not a special Ambassador for Ukrainian favors.  He's not a USG employee.  

One other thing to think about.  Around the time of this John Bolton, who was involved with Ukraine was abruptly fired.  Was it his idea for the call?  Or did he counsel against it?  Trump said he made "grave errors".  

I'm sorry to say that it is going to take a miracle for Trump to get out of this one.  He has screwed the pooch.  His only real hope is that with a majority in the Senate that they can have enough votes to keep him from being impeached.  If you watched his speech at the UN and the press conference after, it's clear that some thing is weighing heavily on him.  

Name:	architect -	Reply
Subject:	Finally, someone on the forum wakes up,
Date:	9/26/2019 10:55:18 PM

and smells the coffee, even if she is not crazy about doing so.

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	Whistleblower Complaint is Steele Dossier 2.0
Date:	9/28/2019 8:40:35 AM

Don't be fooled by what's written in the complaint. It is mostly pure fabrication. You've seen the actual conversation.  

As for Bolton, he left in September, not July.  And it had to do with disputes over Iraq, North Korea and Afghanistan. Nothing to do with Ukraine. As for the classification of the call, I ask you, have we ever seen the transcripts of any calls between POTUS and a world leader?  Has any President ever been subjected to the kind of leaking and misinformation as Trump?  Has any President ever been the subject of an attempted deep state coup by the Justice Dept and intelligence community?  I would have done exactly what he did with every call I make. If this goes ahead and the complaint is sliced and diced like the Steele Dossier you are going to regret having formed any opinion about whether Trump made an error from it.

And more to the point, if Trump made missteps then Biden is toast as are the 3 Democrat Senators that threatened Ukraine with funding unless they investigated Trump.  And yet there are no calls for any of that from the govt media. Why is that?  This is witch hunt 2.0. Don't fall for it. 

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	Whistleblower Complaint is Steele Dossier 2.0
Date:	9/28/2019 9:49:57 AM

It may be a witch hunt, but I have a serious problem with the whole thing.  I don't like Trump using Guiliani as some sort of off the record diplomat.  Apparently, Guiliani was over in Ukraine, advising them what Trump wanted and greasing the skids for the phone call to happen at all.  I do not like the idea that our President would be dangling the aid package to a war torn country, that they should do his bidding with regard to finding dirt and reopening the case against Biden's son.  And that his official envoy to Ukraine and an Ambassador would be put in a position to help Ukraine navigate Trump's demands.  He fired our official envoy and the Ambassador quit yesterday.  

To me, the whistleblowers complaint is nothing compared to what we find out that our President is doing.  This is how we have gotten in trouble before - by using other governments to do our dirty work, and then leaving them haning when we were done with them - two notable examples being the Shah of Iran and Noriega in Panama.  

So I'm not falling for anything.  I don't think that Trump will ultimately be impeached - the Senate wil see to that, but this whole thing stinks.  And I will say that I didn't much approve of it when Trump had face to face with Putin and then confiscated the notes.  That is not how official meetings are supposed to work  It's not Trump's government, it is our country.  My future support for Trump is not assured at this point.

Name:	architect -	Reply
Subject:	Preach it Hound!!
Date:	9/28/2019 11:58:00 AM (updated 9/28/2019 12:03:01 PM)

I'm beginning to think maybe you didn't get a fatal dose of the Kool Aide after all!

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	Whistleblower Complaint is Steele Dossier 2.0
Date:	9/28/2019 2:26:05 PM (updated 9/28/2019 2:44:03 PM)

I am sort of with you on Guiliani but given the actions of the State Dept and intelligence community I suspect Trump is going with someone he trusts for certain tasks but meeting with foreign governments doesn't strike me as his core competence.  But the reality is that this Ukraine thing has striking similarities to Russiagate and the more it moves ahead the more I am convinced it is a distraction from the impending IG report on FISA abuses.  And of course the govt media is in on, if not orchestrrating the entire thing.  Just look at the similarity in coverage.  They use the same talking points in both print and cable which makes you wonder who is writing them.

But you say you aren't being fooled by anything and yet you quote this fake complaint as if its the gospel.  There is zero evidence that Guiliani tied the aid to the Hunter Biden thing and the call with the President proves that.  His big ask was with the Crowdstrike thing and the Biden thing was an afterthought.  You can't have it both ways by picking and choosing which part of this phony complaint to believe.

As I have said from the beginning, bring on impeachment.  It will not end well for Democrats and will ensure Trump's reelection.  

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	Whistleblower Complaint is Steele Dossier 2.0
Date:	9/28/2019 8:30:19 PM

I'm not quoting any fake complaint.  Guiliani met with the leadership of Ukraine prior to the phone call.  He leveraged the phone call by greasing the skids for the "favor".  The Ambassador Volker (the one that resigned) approached Guiliani to take the meeting at the behest of the Ukraine leadership.  They need the support of the USG.  And they met with Volker the day after the phone call to figure out how to navigate Trump's request for a favor.  The reason Trump is using Guiliani is so that the can always cite "client/atty" privlege.  

Don't be too quick to disparage the professionals at State, there are a lot of fine people that have spent their careers becoming experts in particular countries in a region.  Generally, they speak the language and know the players.  Voker was acting as part time special envoy unpaid and as a service to the country.  He was the Ambassador to NATO and spent his career on European affairs.  

I don't think Trump is going to be impeached and he will likely be re-elected, but I'm saying I don't like the way he is doing business.  It didn't bother me when he refused to punish Saudi for the death of the journalist, but this is leveraging national security for political points.  I spent too many years working Defense foreign sales and tech transfer to think this is anything but shameful. But that is just my opinion.  

Name:	phil -	Reply
Subject:	Whistleblower Complaint is Steele Dossier 2.0
Date:	9/30/2019 8:19:23 AM

Hound - do you have any concerns that the Whistleblower laws were apparently rewritten in the past few months to allow 2nd-22nd hand information?

Amazing that it is just in time to allow this one.

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	Whistleblower Complaint is Steele Dossier 2.0
Date:	9/30/2019 8:37:17 AM

As a NYT reporter pointed out, there was no quid because the Ukrainians didn't even know the funding was delayed until a month after this call.  Hard to have a quid pro quo when there's no quid, which is exactly why the funding didn't come up in the call.  And once again, I would point out to you the Zelensky brought up Biden and Guiliani, not Trump.  He merely responded.  POTUS is the chief law enforcement officer and him asking for help with Crowdstrike is entirely appropriatye, especially given all the lies about collusion.

Even Schiff acknowledged no quid pro quo.  They are so desparate because they know Trump will be reelected given that the Democrats are going to nominate a socialist as their candidate that they have to try impeachment, even for a nothing claim.  And I still believe this is a distraction from the pending IG report.

As for people at State, of course there are a lot of good people.  But as we saw with the FISA process and now with this phony claim, there are a lot of highly partisan hacks that were involved with the prior coup attempt and now are hoping to cover it up.

Name:	Carlson -	Reply
Subject:	Whistleblower Complaint is Steele Dossier 2.0
Date:	9/30/2019 8:41:35 AM

MM, you are a wise man!  

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	Whistleblower Complaint is Steele Dossier 2.0
Date:	9/30/2019 10:29:45 AM

Not so much wise as cynical when it comes to the win at all costs strategies employed by the left.  I often suggest to those on the impeachment train that they instead focus on trying to defeat Trump in 2020.  But I think they know what is coming in the IG report and what Durham is going to uncover and the last thing they want is a bunch of indictments of former Obama officials during the election because they know a landslide when they see it coming.  This is a desperation move given the abject failures of Russiagate 1.0 and 2.0 and the fact that they are going to nominate a socialist as their candidate.  

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	Whistleblower Complaint is Steele Dossier 2.0
Date:	9/30/2019 1:50:21 PM

Oh yeah, I have a lot of concerns about that.  Suddenly hear-say is okay.

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	Whistleblower Complaint is Steele Dossier 2.0
Date:	9/30/2019 1:59:39 PM

It's really a shame that this is what our political process has come down to.  

MM, I think the Quid was already in play by the time of this phone call.  I have a feeling that Guiliani took care of that.  I'm sure they knew that their funding would be held up, pending their agreement to do certain things.  Because just on the basis of that phone call, they woudn't have known what the hell he was talking about.  

BTW, I"m not letting Biden or his son off the hook here.  Joe has a lot of explaining to do.  His son was getting paid $50K a month to have his name on their masthead.  The company goes under investigation and we're supposed to believe that Joe Biden had the prosecuter fired (with a threat to their government's package) because he wasn't uncovering corruption?  

This only goes to show how corrupt all our politicians are.  IT's enough to make one cynical. 

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	Whistleblower Complaint is Steele Dossier 2.0
Date:	9/30/2019 2:26:46 PM

Well you should be on the impeachment process because you believe things absent any evidence or proof so you'd be perfect.  I believe that Rudy never siad a word to them about this funding and have as much evidence as you that it happened.....and in fact more because the Ukrainians have denied any pressure.  But I suppose they too are in on the whole thing, right?  Trump and Rudy are true masterminds........

By the way, what Trump did was perfectly legal given the law passed during Clinton's presidency and signed into law by Slick Willie himself.  If what he did was perfectly legal then there is no need for impeachment as there was no high crimes, etc.  If you find it repugnant politically then vote against him in 2020.  But Democrats couldn't accept the 2016 results and have low expectations in 2020 so they are taking this last ditch desparation move to impeach for something that was legal, within the purview of the President and so on.  I say bring it on.  Take the vote.  What are they afraid of?  Look at my post above and you will get an inkling.....

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	Whistleblower Complaint is Steele Dossier 2.0
Date:	9/30/2019 9:48:37 PM

I'm not on the impeachment bandwagon, because I think it is a kangeroo court.  Once the Mueller report fizzled for Democrats, they need a new thing to investigate.  They've wanted to impeach Trump since his first day in office, so now they are just moving on it.  They have a chance to supeona a bunch of notes and conversations and leake it all to the media and fill the news shows with breaking news.  No one conversation is going to be a real smoking gun.  

I'm just struggling with the morality of it all.  Why do candidates now think they need foreign collected dirt on each other, why hold funding hostage why do sons of VPs get paid to put their names on the masthead, and then when the going gets tough, his father wants to fire the prosecuter?  What I am struggling with is how much it all stinks.  

And I will be honest, I don't like Rudy Guilani.  I don't trust thim and I think he is out for himself.  At the end of the day, he'll hang Trump out to dry, just like Cohen tried to do.

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	Whistleblower Complaint is Steele Dossier 2.0
Date:	10/1/2019 8:44:43 AM

Once again, there was no quid pro quo and no threat to withhold funding by Trump.  There was by Biden and there was by three Democrat Senators.  But not by Trump......I read the call transcript.  That was one of the many fabrications in the so-called whistleblower report.....which by the way should have never happened except for the August 2019 changing of the form allowing heresay. That change needs to be investigated. This is another deep state coup attempt and a distraction from the coming IG and Durham reports.   

There's a reason DC votes 97% Democrat as do surrounding counties.  They have infested the govt.  If I were Trump, in his second term I would begin to dismantle the DC bureaucracy and relocate many of those jobs to other states.  Drain the infection called DC.

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	Whistleblower Complaint is Steele Dossier 2.0
Date:	10/1/2019 3:02:41 PM

"dismantling" the government in DC and moving it to other states would be a very costly endeavor.  The government is not inherently infested with anything - this is one guy who decided that he would lodge a claim against the President.  DC is heavily a black community and as such they will support whomever they perceive will net them the most - the government of the District is ridiculous and always has been. But as you move out into the burbs, it's not necessarily strongly Democrat, except when a Democrat is in Office.  The community that I lived in was largely Republican.  You don't have a good perception of who works for the government in DC.  What you mostly see are the actions of political appointees and not the career staff,  

To be honest, I suspect the the intelligence community on the whole has a lot of resentment about Trump - he has insulted them and it would seem he has ignored them.  It would be like if people disparaged your company and your work - said it wasn't important or necessary.  You would also feel resentful.   That whole community has been shat on by all of the most recent Presidents.  I doubt they are motivated as much by politics as you might think.  

I notice you keep going back to the phone call.  Let's face it, if Trump hadn't specifically called out Biden's name in the phone conversation, this would have all been about corruption in the Ukraine government.  

Name:	lucky67 -	Reply
Subject:	Whistleblower Complaint is Steele Dossier 2.0
Date:	10/1/2019 3:11:25 PM

Just left D C after 5 days-a crane on every corner and roads full of potholes

Name:	MrHodja -	Reply
Subject:	Whistleblower Complaint is Steele Dossier 2.0
Date:	10/1/2019 4:12:41 PM (updated 10/1/2019 4:13:50 PM)

Lived there (Northern Virginia) for four years in the 70s when I worked at the five sided funny farm, and have gone back regularly over the yerars for various reasons.  When I took a contractor job in Rosslyn in Spring, 2015, I was amazed at the number of cranes, the great majority of them located in Southeast DC, a former slum/ghetto that has been transformed into more glass and steel high-rises.  It all started when they built the baseball stadium right in the middle of a run down industrial area and blossomed from there.  The "projects" were razed and turned into parking lots for the stadium.  I am told the tenants were all pushed out to Prince Georges County and the crime went with them.  Now PG County is as dangerous as Southeast used to be.

As far as DC Government goes I can sum it up in two words:  Marion Barry.

Name:	lucky67 -	Reply
Subject:	Whistleblower Complaint is Steele Dossier 2.0
Date:	10/1/2019 4:17:46 PM

Daughter “got a bargain “ in Arlington-3 bed/1 bath townhouse only $735,000

Name:	MrHodja -	Reply
Subject:	Whistleblower Complaint is Steele Dossier 2.0
Date:	10/1/2019 7:11:11 PM (updated 10/1/2019 7:18:12 PM)

I worked up there 2 1/2 years as a class B bachelor and paid $2K/month for a 600 sq foot one bedroom apt in Shirlington. 

But the Brew Pub was a five minute walk.....

There are some newly built high rises in Rosslyn that have apartments going as high as $25K/month.  Nothing but Mercedes, APorsches, Maseratis, and the like going into THAT garage!

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	Whistleblower Complaint is Steele Dossier 2.0
Date:	10/1/2019 9:21:41 PM

You are both right about the condition of the roads and the cost of the real estate.  Property taxes are also very high.  (my last house was $7,000 a year).  I think Hodja is right about Marion Barry.  He ruined the district.  I had an NCO that worked for me.  Her husband's family worked for the DC government - and she used to tell me tales of mink coats and diamonds being given for Christmas gifts by her husband's family.  Then there was the woman that worked in an office where they were giving property tax and she was paying herself.  The only reason she got caught is because her niece who was doing her banking, got fresh with the bank clerk.  They started auditing the account and caught on to it and reported it.  Her "take" was in the millions and had been going on for years.  She was supposed to get second signatures and never did.  They were never audited and no one every caught on.  That is the DC government in a nutshell.