Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	The reality behind the CBO score
Date:	7/24/2017 2:33:49 PM (updated 7/24/2017 3:00:09 PM)

Oops....it turns out that the CBO's estimate that ~22 million will "lose" their health insurance under the various GOP plans is more than a bit misleading.  According to recently leaked CBO data, 73% of those who will "lose" their health insurance will actually be deciding to do so voluntarily because of the elimination of the mandate.  Of course this doesn't even begin to scratch the surface of the actual numbers given CBO's abysmal record of how many people will actually sign up for Obamacare as a result of the mandate.  This was covered in an earlier post but let's just say that abysmal is a kind word when describing a group that has a worse record than weather forecasters or the myriad of experts who never seem to get close to predicting economic data correctly.  

Imagine that, people being allowed to make a rational, economic decision to not pay thousands of dollars a year for health insurance that has ridiculously high deductibles meaning they are also out thousands of dollars before the insurance even kicks in.  Apparently this lie about the impact of the GOP plans is a big impediment to getting the thing passed.  There is zero reason the CBO should have any credibility with regard to their prognostications about health insurance, but at least knowing the truth about the GOP plan should help. And no, you won't hear this on pmsnBS, cBS, nBS, cnnBS or the various print media dinosaurs.

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	Enjoy this chart of CBO's prognostication record
Date:	7/24/2017 3:02:01 PM (updated 7/24/2017 3:07:21 PM)

It's no wonder that according to a recent CNN poll only 35% of the respondents want the GOP to abandon repeal and replace.  Or to make it clear to those with a liberal education, almost 2/3rds want repeal and replace to continue.

Name:	lakngulf -	Reply
Subject:	Enjoy this chart of CBO's prognostication record
Date:	7/24/2017 3:15:27 PM

Oh no.  MM's dealing with actual facts again.  Not allowed

I have a sure way to kill Obamacare.  Fund it completely, and enroll all unborn infants.  Dems will kill it in a hurry

Name:	phil -	Reply
Subject:	Enjoy this chart of CBO's prognostication record
Date:	7/24/2017 4:04:20 PM

About the same record as CNN  - 

Name:	wix -	Reply
Subject:	The reality behind the CBO score
Date:	7/24/2017 4:25:34 PM

Also two other facts play into o-BAMMIEcare: 

1.  A huge percentage of participants receive "welfare" payments from  gubment coffers as "premium assistance".

2.  A huge percentage of participants were insured prior to oBAMMIEcare by "sub-standard" policies that were outlawed by o-BAMMIE?

Don't forget that additional Medicaid for dimokraps is the biggest stumbling block in getting rid of the socialist krap of oBAMMIE.

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	The reality behind the CBO score
Date:	7/24/2017 4:33:07 PM

I am glad you put sub-standard in quotes as that is exactly right.  What is considered "sub-standard" by Obamacare was simply the policy that people wanted to buy when it was still being offered.  But no longer can a 55-year old man have a policy that doesn't cover contraceptives, maternity benefits, etc. You gotta have it all and pay for it.  That is why the Cruz amendment was genius.  As long as an insurer provides a plan consistent with those required under Obamacare they are also free to offer any other type of plan.  Want your high premium, high deductible Obamacare plan then go ahead and waste your money.  Want a plan that actually meets your needs?  You can have that as well.  And if you want no plan at all?  That's your decision....not the governments.

Name:	lucky67 -	Reply
Subject:	The reality behind the CBO score
Date:	7/24/2017 4:50:18 PM (updated 7/24/2017 4:53:10 PM)

wonder how many illegals are on Obamacare with their premiums coming from tax payers;

and why should the govet be involved in health care at all; they've already proven they can simply manage Social Security funds

Name:	GoneFishin -	Reply
Subject:	The reality behind the CBO score
Date:	7/24/2017 5:34:01 PM

I wonder how they will handle when the basic policy doesn't cover something and suddenly you have that condition. Can you just cancel the basic and sign up for the broad coverage? Will they cover that prexisiting condition under the broad policy? Or, like Medicare they will exclude the new condition.(Insurance companies require a medical application under Medicare if you want to change coverage and can exclude prexisting).

It is a trap for young people but needs to be explored. Can a young female buy a policy w/o maternity and the move up to a policy when  she gets pregnant or is that a prexisting condition?

The genius is in the details. Just like selling across state lines. Rates will always be determined where you live, medical costs, and utilization. It is very expensive for a Company to begin selling health insurance in a new state...the have to set up a network of docs and negotiate with hospitals. It is a  major and expensive undertaking. The concept sound good until you have a claim problem and you Dept of Insurance tells you to contact the New Mexico department cause the policy is filed in New Mexico.

Hello, this is MM and I am in Georgia. I need to get a problem corrected with my health insurance.

Hello MM, where is Georgia? Near Santa Fe?

The State of Georgia.

Ok, the GA person comes in the last 3 days of each month. Call back. CLICK.

Hello, this is MM....I am going to post your lack of interest in my problem of the Lake Forum. Hell, like Trump said health insurance is complicated.

Name:	wix -	Reply
Subject:	GOOF-IDIOT
Date:	7/24/2017 7:31:36 PM (updated 7/24/2017 8:16:18 PM)

G-iDIOT, your inability to communicate is absolutely amazing.  MEdicare has no pre-existing conditions....never has never will.  supplemental is not Medicare.  GOt it???  MEdicare Advantage is a way for insurance co's to milk the gubment....

Medical Insurance does not have to have designated group physicians....I never had it, never will....it's your choice.  If you are dumb enough or cheap enough to buy group doc coverage....that's your choice......not the law....Got it?

Name:	GoneFishin -	Reply
Subject:	CORRECTED The reality behind the CBO score
Date:	7/24/2017 8:22:00 PM

CORRECTED FROM MEDICARE TO MEDICARE SUPPLEMENT

I wonder how they will handle when the basic policy doesn't cover something and suddenly you have that condition. Can you just cancel the basic and sign up for the broad coverage? Will they cover that prexisiting condition under the broad policy? Or, like MEDICARE SUPPLEMENT they will exclude the new condition.(Insurance companies require a medical application under Medicare Supplement policy if you want to change coverage and can exclude prexisting).

It is a trap for young people but needs to be explored. Can a young female buy a policy w/o maternity and the move up to a policy when  she gets pregnant or is that a prexisting condition?

The genius is in the details. Just like selling across state lines. Rates will always be determined where you live, medical costs, and utilization. It is very expensive for a Company to begin selling health insurance in a new state...the have to set up a network of docs and negotiate with hospitals. It is a  major and expensive undertaking. The concept sound good until you have a claim problem and you Dept of Insurance tells you to contact the New Mexico department cause the policy is filed in New Mexico.

Hello, this is MM and I am in Georgia. I need to get a problem corrected with my health insurance.

Hello MM, where is Georgia? Near Santa Fe?

The State of Georgia.

Ok, the GA person comes in the last 3 days of each month. Call back. CLICK.

Hello, this is MM....I am going to post your lack of interest in my problem of the Lake Forum. Hell, like Trump said health insurance is complicated.

Name:	GoneFishin -	Reply
Subject:	Calm Down WIX
Date:	7/24/2017 8:29:05 PM

I meant Medicare Supplement. Thanks for bringing it to my attention. What is the deal with the physicians? I posted nothing about that. My point was simle, if you try and upgrade a Medical Supplement policy, the carrier will ask you to complete a medical questionnaire and can exclude or restrict a pre existing condition.

Nothing to do with Medicare Advantage simply a Medicare Supplement.

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	CORRECTED The reality behind the CBO score
Date:	7/25/2017 12:08:02 PM

Apparently I have more faith in the free markets than you do.  Let me suggest a book to you.  The Road to Serfdom by Hayek.  You need it very badly.  As for the problems faced by young people, you assume for some reason that everyone needs to be bailed out for making bad decisions or having something unfortunate happen to them.  Me not so much.  I would always recommend to my children that at a minimum they have the right kind of health insurance for the most likely medical issues they experience.   After that it is up to them to decide how much tolerance for risk they have that something unexpected happens.  It is almost certain that some will bet wrong and will have to suffer the consequences of their choices.  That is called life.  That is called being an adult.  Only left wing nuts think its the govt's job to treat everyone like a child.  Grow up Goofy.

Name:	GoneFishin -	Reply
Subject:	CORRECTED The reality behind the CBO score
Date:	7/25/2017 12:49:15 PM

You are also in a position to help them with a lifeline if they make a bad decision.

Name:	phil -	Reply
Subject:	CORRECTED The reality behind the CBO score
Date:	7/25/2017 1:03:38 PM

Yup he is, and unless I am mistaken he is not the government.  His argument was that its not the governments place to get into the middle of every stubbed toe and scraped knee.  You helped make his argument in pointing out he can help his kids and that would be the place of a parent if he chose to do so, or not to do so if it would teach a life lesson, one you never learned.

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	CORRECTED The reality behind the CBO score
Date:	7/25/2017 2:23:12 PM

Now, now.....class envy is such an ugly attribute of the left.  Thankfully my two college graduates are very responsible and risk averse and are willing to sacrifice to have decent insurance.  They seem to know that I would more inclined to have them learn a life lesson rather than bail them out.  Way different than the sleaze bags that make bad decisions and expect other taxpayers to bail them out.  But hey, as long as the government is willing to rob Peter to pay Paul they can always count on the support of Paul.  That's your problem Goofy, you believe that the role of govt is to keep people in perpetual childhood......I don't.  Read the Road to Serfdom, it will be enlightening.

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	The reality behind the CBO score
Date:	7/25/2017 2:24:41 PM

I don't pay much attention to the CBO score, the reason being is that you can manipulate numbers to show whatever you want it to show.

i just wish I had a better understanding of exactly what the President is replacing Obamacare with.  I worry that it is going to be just another program with a lot of problems.  I'm hearing about a greater reliance on healthcare savings accounts - if people aren't saving for retirement, what makes anyone think that they will save for health care?  I'm not saying that I don't think Obama care shouldn't be repealed, but I wish they would slow down and really think about it, rather than rushing to make political points.  They have a little over 3 more years to debate and come up with something that really will work.  And like flyfisher, I am wondering why the government should be involved at all.  I can see the government creating legislation that allows certain things to happen and change, but we don't need the govenrment in the sub-business of being health care providers. 

I just wish I felt better about the whole thing.

Name:	wix -	Reply
Subject:	GOOF-DUMMY
Date:	7/25/2017 2:43:03 PM

I read up on the ins and outs of Medicare, BEFORE I became eligible so I knew the FACTS (even w/o da gubment holding my hand).  Rule with Supplement is buy the best and stick with it.  Difference between Plan A (basic) and Plan F (best) was about $10/mo....duh!!  Also, buy best up front and rates progress much slower w/age.  Also, watch out for coverage areas, especially with AL Blue Cross....got cancer...need care at MD Anderson in TX....look out!!  Forget overseas....better forget travel.

Goof everyone is responsible for their own life....like it or not.  I don't want Pelosi making life decisions for me and my family.

Name:	wix -	Reply
Subject:	CORRECTED The reality behind the CBO score
Date:	7/25/2017 2:48:24 PM

Liberals don't teach their kids responsibility.  They only provide phone numbers and websites to the nearest welfare office, abortion clinic, drug dealer, psychiatrist, and Medicaid office.

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	The reality behind the CBO score
Date:	7/25/2017 4:40:52 PM

The real challenge here is that they have to use the reconciliation process to avoid needing 60 votes in the Senate for cloture.  With reconciliation there is only so much they can do to fix this mess we are in with Obamacare.  That is the reality and why you are seeing movement by the more conservative Senators like Cruz, Lee and even Rand Paul.  The best the GOP can do is to offer Obamacare-lite because they don't have the votes.  This is just the first step to dismantling Obamacare but not the final step.....hopefully.

As for what is in the bills, you can read lots of analysis about the various versions that have been proposed.  Each have their merits and various problems.  What I find incredible about the CBO score is their ridiculous emphasis on the mandate despite having been so wrong in their predictions.  So you wildly overstate the number of signups, then you wildly overstate the number that won't sign up with the mandate gone based on your initial overstatements.  The CBO is a joke and should be ignored.  But we live in the real world and as you know from your many years inside the beltway reality is not what is important to them.

As for HSA's, I have one and its more like a 401k instead of expecting someone to have the discipline to save money.  It is typically done via a payroll deduction and goes right into the HSA account.  And the HSA is tied to a catastrophic policy for those events that will use up the funds in the account.  I think their idea is to allow people to be able to put more into the HSA (current limit is around $7K) which would allow them to have a higher deductible for their catastrophic policy so their premium is lower.  And I think they want HSAs to be more available to people that want them.

Name:	GoneFishin -	Reply
Subject:	The reality behind the CBO score
Date:	7/25/2017 7:19:03 PM

You are not making any sense.

"They seem to know that I would more inclined to have them learn a life lesson rather than bail them out.  Way different than the sleaze bags that make bad decisions and expect other taxpayers to bail them out."

If you are not going to bail them out, they will turn to the government for  help.  If they lost their job and were losing their roof to foreclosure, I would hope you would help them out. But, typical Right let them seek government help..it will save me money.

Oh well, they can always read the Serfdom book.

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	The reality behind the CBO score
Date:	7/26/2017 8:31:52 AM (updated 7/26/2017 9:02:40 AM)

Where did I say that in the post above yours?  Honestly Goofy, you are so intellectually challenged that you can't figure out which post you are replying to.  Putting that aside, I know personal responsibility doesn't make sense to a left wing nut like you.  I am quite sure others know exactly what I am saying about the proper role of govt and the way its distorted by libtards to buy votes.  Everyone should read that book but you should in particular because you are ignorant of human nature and economics.

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	This quote describes the left perfectly
Date:	7/26/2017 3:52:53 PM

"The pessimist in American society believes the reason some people are poor is that others are rich. He refuses to see any cause-and-effect relationship between behavior and result. This is the same as saying, 'The reason some people are sick is that others are well.' Because they blame others for their problems, pessimists seek solutions outside themselves for those problems. If you have no belief in yourself or your abilities, you'll have no faith in your capacity to solve your problems. A pessimist is always demanding help, regardless of whether that help is effective." —Ed Feulner

Name:	Buteye -	Reply
Subject:	The reality behind the CBO score
Date:	7/26/2017 4:05:07 PM

GoneFishin doesn't seem to accept the fact that there are "people" who take responsibility for themselves as well as providing guidance for their offspring as they prepare themselves for their future and the responsibilities they will face as adults. Apparently GoneFishin and most "left wingers" don't agree with this logical approach toward becoming a "worthy" addition to society. They are more in "tune" with the idea of "what can the governent do for me which is 'contrary'to  President John F. Kennedy's(Democrat) question, what can I do for my Country"? The feeling of too many people today that they are "entitled" began with President Lyndon Johnson has grown over many decades to the point where people don't see s "need" to work since they can sit on their a$$ and in many cases receive "more" in benefits than if they were working.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                I have said it before and I say it again, as a taxpayer I don't support the Federal Government giving my money to "deadbeats" who take no resonsibility for their own "well being" nor the "well being" of their descendants. This "happy go lucky" mentality that has pervaded our society, mainly as a result of the Federal Government "overstepping" it's role as a "provider" for things that "individuals" are responsible for providing for themselves and their families is "tearing" this "Nation" apart. Even an "idiot" if provided with a reasonable amount of information can understand that a 20 trillion dollar "National Debt" is "bankrupting" this Country. Furthermore. the "mere" fact that the Democrats did not offer one vote to repeal "Obama Care", an Act that is seriously negatively affecting even those who have the insurance, reflects the Democrats total "lack" of care for the "well being" of the American people. They can't accept the fact that Hillary is not President and be damned the American people. I "challenge" anyone to come forth with their "thoughts" on where the United States would be today if Hillary was President(give Russia some more Uranium, get more "foreign" donations to the Clinton Foundation, and provide Bill some more speaking "engagments" at $500,000.00 a pop.

Name:	Buteye -	Reply
Subject:	This quote describes the left perfectly
Date:	7/26/2017 4:11:06 PM (updated 7/26/2017 4:14:11 PM)

Since according to GoneFishin I am your "puppet", I again "relish" your posts which are so relevant to society as we are living it today. I will be reading the Serfdom book which I thing GoneFishin is ignoring.

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	This quote describes the left perfectly
Date:	7/26/2017 9:46:26 PM

Good quote!  You know, I don't like John McCain and have long thought he needed to retire, as he was bitter about not being elected President.  But, the other day on the floor of the Senate, I thought he had it right.  Not that anyone will listen to him, but what he said was exactly true. 

Now, I have another question:  If you knew that at best, you probably had 15 months to live, would your first concern be to hop on a plane and fly to Washington?  It would not be mine.  I would have resigned my position, and spent the remaining time with my family.  You may think I am not appreciative of his dedication, but I'm a cynic.  I think some of these old guys can't stand the thought of not having the constant attention of the soundbite and the buttkissing that goes on.  I appreciate that they needed his vote to move the health care debate, but if you were dying would you care about the health care vote?  I don't think I would. 

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	This quote describes the left perfectly
Date:	7/26/2017 10:40:55 PM

I guess there is two ways to look at this, the charitable way and the cynical way.  Charitably, he realizes what a disaster Obamacare is and truly wanted to make sure it has a chance of being repealed and replaced and was willing to sacrifice to make that a possibility.  Cynically, he is so addicted to power and prestige that he could not miss the opportunity to scold those who disagree with him and cement his image as a dedicated public servant by dragging himself from death's doorstep to vote.  As for me, I have no opinion either way but am glad he was there to at least move the debate to the floor for amendments and votes.  So in this case I suppose the ends justify the motivation.

As Goofy said in an earlier post, regardless of McCain's foibles there is much to be admired about him.  And unlike Trump's views, it seems to me based on what I have read about him that he conducted himself honorably as a POW.  I don't care if he gave into the torture, etc. As it says in the bible, pray that you don't undergo the test.  Most of us would have broken eventually.......that's the reality regardless of how the armchair POWs see this.