Name:	copperline -	Reply
Subject:	On understanding Trump's messaging
Date:	8/28/2016 8:56:52 PM

I recently read an opinion piece that said that in order to understand Donald Trump’s style and demeanor, you had to understand the common practices of the high stakes real estate business.   The writer was describing that in this part of the real estate world, exaggeration and “over selling” is so common as to be accepted as the norm.   So, describing a piece of property as having attributes well beyond reason….. so wonderful, so marvelous that you just can’t believe how great this deal is!…. is pretty much how people in that world talk to potential clients.   And no one expects anything different. Gross exaggerations are crafted to be just shy of fraudulent, but if they do cross the line there is only a wink and a nod rather than criticism for being intentionally misleading.   In any other profession, such exaggerations would be cause for loss of credibility or even revoking professional licenses… but in this corner of the business world, it may be simply the way they do business.  

This explains a lot about Trump’s style of loud, over stated and dramatic speaking.  It comes straight from the sales techniques used in his world of wealthy clients who are attracted to flashy details and glossy displays of conspicuous consumption.   Each item for sale has to be The Biggest & the Best, nothing else will do.   Appealing to vanity and the desire to display wealth is a good sales tactic.   And what he says doesn’t have to be true…. Just plausible enough to be accepted for the time being.

So Trump has spent years mastering the art of the reframe, he knows how add specious details that are highly suggestive but not verifiable, he routinely mixes facts with opinions from unnamed sources, deflecting direct inquires and responding with confusing & foggy verbiage.   It’s a verbal skill that he has perfected for years to confound business associates and conceal his intentions, or allow for enough lack of specifics that he can always say “You misunderstood me, so it’s not my fault”.     Clearly, there are times when you listen to him and think “he says so much, I don’t know what he actually meant”.    

Michael Bloomberg put it differently when he said “I know a con man when I see one”.

Ironically, Trump supporters are attracted to him because he is “not like a politician and always says what is on his mind”.   They are confusing brash & outrageous verbiage with directness and honesty.  Trump is simply using a cruder version of what his supporters despise in mealy-mouthed politicians.   He makes pronouncements that sound strong, unequivocal and direct… but often so poorly considered that no reasonable person would expect it to hold up to close scrutiny.   Later on, he can partially retract or claim to have been misunderstood….never acknowledging that what he said was untrue or misleading.

The obvious question is whether this style of over-the-top salesmanship will be an advantage or an outright danger if he were to become President.   In my opinion (and this POV is shared by a huge number of respected government officials from the State Department to the Pentagon and Department of Defense, Senior GOP party members, Congressmen, previous Presidents of both parties,  Diplomats….even the leaders of allied nations),…… the people & leaders of other countries will not respond to his style with the same tolerance & understanding that his supporters are showing.  They will likely take his bragging & hints as threats.   And if they do interpret his exaggerations in this way, they could respond with preemptive strategic moves to counter his aggressive sounding talk.  This kind of talk on the global diplomatic stage is likely to provoke other countries to take actions that they otherwise would not have felt necessary.  Donald is apparently used to his pronouncements provoking other people to cower and give in to him.    He is also used to denying that what you heard is what he meant.    He will not find his style works very well when those opponents have large armies, nuclear weapons, and paranoid tendencies.

Trump is still very much the slick real estate salesman who wants to sell a property, but intends to walk away when the deal is done… leaving you to take find the flaws that he distracted you from seeing beforehand.   Or he may be like the used car salesman who never looked under the hood but confidently reassures you that he just knows cars and promises the one he is selling will run for a million miles.     

In Trump world, there are only two kinds of people:  winners and suckers.

Caveat Emptor.   Let the buyer beware.

Name:	MrHodja -	Reply
Subject:	On understanding Trump's messaging
Date:	8/28/2016 9:17:23 PM

"But intends to walk away".  Copper, being in the line of work you were in before retiring, you should know that the only person qualified to describe Donald Trump's intent is Donald Trump.  

I think you are as afraid of what might transpire under a Trump administration as the conservatives on the forum are afraid of what might transpire in a Hillary administration.  We find ourselves collectively in a mucking fess.

Name:	lakngulf -	Reply
Subject:	On understanding Trump's messaging
Date:	8/28/2016 9:32:19 PM

makes pronouncements that sound strong, unequivocal and direct… but often so poorly considered that no reasonable person would expect it to hold up to close scrutiny.   Later on, (s)he can partially retract or claim to have been misunderstood….never acknowledging that what he said was untrue or misleading

Who? were you talking about?

I am still glad that you are giving it your best.  I cannot believe to what extent you are studying this man.  Wow.  Hodja might be just right. AND, and, and  we need the shakeup.  The folks that you say agree with your POV are just the reason to oppose it.  A shakeup is needed, and we need to negotiate from a position of strenght.  It may appear bombastic, it may be bombastic, but our current operation and dealing with other nations has been from weakness, or more allegiance to their gods than ours.  Can you spell ransom?

Name:	Firefighter -	Reply
Subject:	On understanding Trump's messaging
Date:	8/28/2016 9:45:36 PM

Let's say I accept everything you have presented.

I must make a similiar evaluation of Hillery and select a candadate.

In my opinion, I would rather have Trump on my side than Hillery.

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	On understanding Trump's messaging
Date:	8/28/2016 9:46:32 PM

Most politicians are sales people.  They sell ideas, not apartments.  They sell themselves in order to get people to vote for them.They get you to believe how wonderfu everything will be under their leadership.  And then at the end of their Administration, they walk away, leaving promises unfulfilled. 

How many politicians actually do half the stuff that they say they promised to do during the campaign? 

Do you really think Hilary is not also a sales person?  She is selling her ideas for the future of the country. 

Donald Trump is no different than he has ever been.  Even before he was on the national stage.  but the point to remember is that he really did sell those apartments - some of the most expensive real estate in the world, and did so at a profit.  People like Trump are motivated to get things done.  The more someone tells them they can't they more they are he$$bent to do so.  And they usually get it done.

I agree with Hodja, that we are in a mell of a hess. 

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	LNG
Date:	8/28/2016 9:51:11 PM

You are absolutely right about our need to negotiate from a position of strength.  Diplomacy has it's place, but first you have to convince them that you are not afraid to walk out.  And unfortunately, I don't think that is what this Administation has been doing.

Name:	MrHodja -	Reply
Subject:	On understanding Trump's messaging
Date:	8/28/2016 9:54:35 PM

You can't criticize a person for being true to his/her convictions, and Copper fits that mold.  Unfortunately many of the reasons he cites for choosing Hillary over Trump are the reasons many choose the opposite.  The country is struggling with its identity.  Will it remain strong and independent or go the way of the European model?  I can only go by what an Italian Navy Lt Commander said to me when we were on his ship.  He said he longed to go to the US to live as Americans do, that his Government only stifled initiative and the 55% tax burden made life miserable.  Do we really want to go that way?

Name:	wix -	Reply
Subject:	Copper-idiot
Date:	8/28/2016 9:54:38 PM (updated 8/28/2016 9:59:35 PM)

It's very amusing that you fell for the op-ed from some liberal idiot who was trying to turn Trump into a car salesman, or maybe a mobile home salesman.  The author obviously had to reduce the picture painted of Trump's business world to the lowest common denominator...that would be some gullible, non- business, liberal, naive, liberal idiot.......do you fit that mold??  I think so.

In the real world of construction, developing, and re-packaging projects for hundreds of millions of dollars, professional business people like Trump don't act like you tried to paint Trump.  Believe me, they are much more astute than average voter in the dimokrap party.  You must believe Trump sells the condos in his projects himself.....like a Sunday afternoon open house.  Are you really that uninformed, or so easily fooled.  Trust those in the know....Trump ain't like that community organizing idiot you've been voting for, or like the well known crook you are supporting now.  Better prepare a better argument against intelligent people.

Name:	MrHodja -	Reply
Subject:	Copper-idiot
Date:	8/28/2016 10:01:20 PM

Can it with the insulting names.  There are adults on the forum who could do without the juvenile name calling.  

And you don't do a single thing that would convince me that you and GF are not one in the same.  If you care to change that impression email me and identify yourself so we can have a meaningful conversation.

Name:	copperline -	Reply
Subject:	On understanding Trump's messaging
Date:	8/28/2016 10:24:06 PM

You are right, I am absolutely terrified of what Donald Trump could do if he is elected President.   And you are right that only Trump knows his intentions... my reference was to the image of a salesman who sells you a bill of goods, then walks away taking no responsibllity for the outcome.  

From what I can tell, I don't think Trump is the kind of guy who takes responsibilty for his mistakes, he denies them or places blame elsewhere.   

Name:	copperline -	Reply
Subject:	On understanding Trump's messaging
Date:	8/28/2016 11:01:56 PM

Trump's over-the-top style of bragging and exaggeration isn't going to translate into 'negotiating from a position of strength', it's going to create unintended consequences because he doesn't think before he speaks when he gets excited.   He riffs off the top of his head, and frequently exaggerates to get louder applause regardless of the implications of what comes out of his mouth.   

The best case scenario would be that foreign leaders will think he is foolish, the worse case is that foreign adversaries will take him at his word and strike before he strikes them.   Neither is a position of strength.

Think about it this way:  do you want a guy who has a bad temper and an impulsive mouth to be leading the military?   You think he will negotiate from position of strength.  I think he could get a lot of people needlessly killed & create catastrophe.     

Compromising the US military by putting them into untenable positions isn't something you get to say "whoops!.... can I get a do-over on that?"   (I'm referencing things like "I know more than the generals", "bomb the sh...t out of them", and saying he would order both torture and the killing of relatives even though this is against US & international law).

Name:	wix -	Reply
Subject:	General Hodj
Date:	8/29/2016 9:14:52 AM

Oh hallowed one, please excuse me for violating YOUR rules for YOUR forum.  I have to ask, since you have already declared that I am the alter ego for another poster on this forum, why are you addressing me, why not just go to the source...Goof.

The style and manner I choose when responding to any given post is my decision, protected by the US Constitution, not YOURS.  You'll notice the posters I respond to sternly are those who attack conservative values and/or conservative political candidates.  When those conservative values and people are attacked, I respond in kind.  No, I do not play the politically correct game played by liberals or those who grovel before their gubment masters.  This forum has an ignore button that you can push, but human curiosity usually does not permit "ignore".

As to me sending you an email to prove I am YOUR servant....that ain't gonna happen, because I don't trust what you would do with my email address.  You have to be very careful today with the internet.  May I suggest that you join Facebook if you want that close politically correct forum.

Name:	architect -	Reply
Subject:	Most enlightening and intellegent string
Date:	8/29/2016 9:43:30 AM (updated 8/29/2016 9:46:37 AM)

in weeks with at least reasonable points, questions, opinions and comments from Copper and counters from the other side.  Indeed it was going pretty well...then Wix showed up.

Name:	wix -	Reply
Subject:	Copper-dimokrap (idiot)
Date:	8/29/2016 9:46:30 AM

Your continued personal assumption of false opinions and lies will continue to draw the same response from the same people.  Either tell the truth, or quit posting krap you copy and paste.  

Name:	wix -	Reply
Subject:	Arch-idiot
Date:	8/29/2016 9:54:02 AM

BE CAREFUL........General Hodj is policing the forum and the personal attack you just made on me will warrant a tongue lashing from the General.  Or maybe that's just reserved for conservatives.  I am beginning to believe that Hodj and Copper-idiot are the same person.

Name:	architect -	Reply
Subject:	Arch-idiot
Date:	8/29/2016 10:11:57 AM (updated 8/29/2016 10:13:44 AM)

No problem.  I've had and survived many tongue lashings from Mr H for ''name calling'' and I will continue the practice when it is justified...with you it is whether you are one person or two or more!

Name:	GoneFishin -	Reply
Subject:	Hey Wixxie The Bumbling Conservative
Date:	8/29/2016 10:31:22 AM

Looks like Hodja is getting to you. Calm down.....I intimidate him so he now avoids me. You are our only hope. Don't screw it up....remember it is Be Kind To Hodja week.

By the way...the US Constitution protects nothing we post....only the Webmaster.

Name:	wix -	Reply
Subject:	Hey, Goofbutt....
Date:	8/29/2016 10:32:57 AM

Arch and I are becoming buddies against General Hodj.......wanna join our new party?

Name:	GoneFishin -	Reply
Subject:	Hey, Goofbutt....
Date:	8/29/2016 8:06:01 PM

I am going to take a pass...I don't like to gang up on a loser. He needs compassion and pity rather than condemnation. The conspiracy is alive and well Bro....

Name:	wix -	Reply
Subject:	Hey, Goofbutt....
Date:	8/29/2016 10:33:05 PM

AAAAHHHHHHH, that is sssssooooooooo sweet!