| Name: |
Bob
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| Subject: |
Catherine are you serious?
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Date:
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1/5/2009 8:44:56 AM
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You can NOT be serious? You wrote, "If true, that "coop" has nothing to do with lease or profit sharing. It simply is price gouging"
That is the most RIDICULOUS thing ever written and you have NO credibility now with any one with any sense. If they wanted to HIDE it they could simply add 3.5% to their prices and then they would not be accused of "Price Gouging" by an obvious "anti capitalist" such as you.
THEY took the RISK. It is a great place and it is Pricey. When I go to Highlands North Carolina I pay the same prices at the samn d@mn market up there (run bye the same guy). It is all about supply and demand...Based on what I saw there is plenty of demand..."Price Gouging"...I hope they raise prices by 10% and remove the "coop" so RL paranoia is reduced. It is clear that this board is full of a bunch of BITTER old Ex Russell employess with a huge axe to grind...Ridiculous...
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| Name: |
Catherine
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| Subject: |
I assure you, I am serious.
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Date:
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1/5/2009 9:01:53 AM
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I have not visited Catherines, so I do not have a receipt to reference. This should be easy to find out though:
Is the "coop" added to the total price, or deducted from the total price?
Is the coop taxed, or not?
This should be easy to find out.
I am told Catherines is not leased.
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| Name: |
PC Al
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| Subject: |
I assure you, I am serious.
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Date:
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1/5/2009 10:35:17 AM
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Read my reply in the post below as to how the coop is added. Subtotal + tax + coop = final bill.
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| Name: |
Catherine
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| Subject: |
I did. Deceptive at best.
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Date:
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1/5/2009 10:52:12 AM
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I'm not sure, but I believe if there are "hidden fees" such as this, they must be disclosed to the consumer before the transaction is completed. A "prominent" sign would probably suffice in this situation.
This seems like an extremely deceptive practice to me. It would be very interesting to know where that "coop fee" goes, and why it is not just built into the pricing from the start.
Odd indeed. Unusual, and very deceptive.
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| Name: |
water_watcher
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| Subject: |
I did. Deceptive at best.
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Date:
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1/5/2009 11:22:52 AM
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Why don't you visit the store yourself and ask rather than bash RL and state things that you do not know are true or not.
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| Name: |
Catherine
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| Subject: |
I certainly will.
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Date:
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1/5/2009 11:44:10 AM
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The next time I am that way. I made it clear that I haven't been there yet, so I'm not sure what is upsetting you so in this discussion. I suppose it could be the mere fact that the discussion is taking place. Publicly.
In the meantime, others who HAVE stopped in and some who HAVE asked are sharing their experience. Since they (eventually "we") are the ones paying the fee, they (eventually "we") are naturally curious as to where it goes and why it exists.
I don't pay "coop" anywhere that I am aware of. As is pointed out below, it could be some sort of "bond repayment" or something similarly legal and equitable, but to my knowledge, there is no taxing authority in addition to the County and State present in that area, not yet, anyway.
It may very well be all on the up and up, it just seems at first glance to be an unusual way to collect more revenues, and in my opinion, seems highly deceptive and suspicious. If an explanation is brought forward that explains it all and shows that it is nothing unusual, I'm sure the discussion will die. I certainly would have no desire to persue it if it were something innocent and usual.
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| Name: |
AUCATZ
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| Subject: |
Yet another reason...
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Date:
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1/5/2009 12:06:06 PM
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quite frankly, that I love the Dadeville side of the lake. Nothing fancy, but you can get good produce and great quality meat at either grocery in town, AND...no super charges.
Guess the country in me is showing, huh? As far as conspiracy theories go, I have my lake place and, while it isn't a palace or a mansion, it's what we want and can afford. Personally don't care if RL or anyone else builds new developments of a grandiose nature. Doesn't hurt me any, so why should I care?
With over 800 miles of shoreline, there is a lot left to develop at Lake Martin before it is all gone. And there aren't enough zillionnaires around to take all the land. I won't ever, ever, ever buy a place where they tell me who I have to use to build it and where I buy the materials. Again, my independence is showing, lol. If others want to go that route, more power to them.
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| Name: |
water_watcher
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| Subject: |
I certainly will.
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Date:
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1/5/2009 12:39:17 PM
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You are very very strange.
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| Name: |
Catherine
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| Subject: |
Well I am also Presbyterian.
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Date:
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1/5/2009 12:41:13 PM
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But what does that have to do with it?
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| Name: |
Lakey
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| Subject: |
Outlook article
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Date:
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1/5/2009 12:45:08 PM
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I am sure there will be an article in the Outlook next week about when a COOP is not really a COOP. What do you think?
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| Name: |
water_watcher
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| Subject: |
I certainly will.
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Date:
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1/5/2009 12:45:57 PM
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What seems more strange is that you weigh in on something you have no knowledge of and have not even been there. It is obvious by your first post of the new year that you do not like RL. So you are bashing them and and saying something is suspicious when you have no knowledge at all. If I was RL I would find out who you are and sue you as your actions are slandeous when you do not have the fact to support the things you are saying. They have done it before and I would encourage them to do it to you. I know they monitor this board so they are probably already reviewing your statements with their attorneys.
You have not been to the market, you do not like RL, so you should probably keep going somewhere else. I am sure they will do fine without your business.
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| Name: |
water_watcher
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| Subject: |
Catherine are you serious?
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Date:
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1/5/2009 12:50:41 PM
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I for one love the market and thank RL for bringing it to us. I want it to succeed as it is the best around even if their prices are a bit high. If we have to pay a small surcharge for whatever the reason to have a quality market like this ... I will gladly chip it. What is the alternative .... drive all the way to Alex City and go to the Wall mart or Winn Dixie. No thanks ... they do not even come close to the quality and selection you can get.
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| Name: |
Lakey
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| Subject: |
Catherine are you serious?
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Date:
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1/5/2009 12:53:04 PM
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They have live lobster at Winn Dixie and frozen lobster tails at Catherine's .
Things that make you go Hmmmmmm! Just an observation.
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| Name: |
Catherine
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| Subject: |
You need to look up "slander"
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Date:
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1/5/2009 1:07:01 PM
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You obviously don't know what it means.
And all I have done is express my opinion, my beliefs, and my experience. I don't believe I have said anything of an accusatory nature, and if anyone has interpreted my statements as accusations, that certainly was not my intention, and I would encourage you to revisit those passages which you find accusatory. I cannot prove that Russell Lands has done anything illegal, but it is my opinion that some of their practices appear unethical, and may have ulterior motive.
Facts are facts, and opinion is just that. If your opinion differs from mine, or if you haven't had the same experience I have, then litigation is your solution?
And we wonder why our Society is heading the direction it is today.
I have not accused anyone of anything, and if I have given the impression that Russell Lands, or anyone else, has done anything illegal or actionable, that certainly is not my intention. I have expressed my opinion, shared some of my experiences, and I stand by those. They are only what they are; my opinions, beliefs and experiences. Just because they don't kiss the King's behind, does not make them illegal. And they certainly are not slanderous by any stretch of the imagination, or definition. You don't even have a case to interpret them as libelous, in my opinion.
I have said Russell Lands has done much good for our area in the past. I have said that I believe they now are a self-serving, oblivious coporation who has little or no concern for what is good for the area, if it interferes with their ability to maximize profit at any cost. I have said that I believe Russell Lands has turned its back on Alexander City, and could quite possibly choke more of what little life remains in a once great town. I sincerely believe those things, but I cannot prove any of them. They are my opinions and beliefs only, and I don't demand that anyone share them with me, or condemn those who don't.
Sue me for that, Counselor.
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| Name: |
Talullahhound
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| Subject: |
Catherine are you serious?
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Date:
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1/5/2009 1:11:40 PM
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I'm with you WW. I love Catherine's and what it brings to the area. Yeah, it's a little more expensive than shopping at Winn Dixie, but thankfully, I don't have to mind my pennies that closely. I'd rather pay extra for high quality items. I'm used to having Whole Foods and Trader Joe's and other high end food purveyors available to me. I admist I'm a foodie and I love to cook so having access to things I might otherwise have to seek out in Montgomeryor B'ham is a pleasure to me. I find I'm going there about once a week.
I won't abandon the farmer's markets during the season for produce, but it's such a pleasure being able to find fresh herbs and flat leaf parsley and dried cherries that don't taste like plastic.....
I bought a loaf of their raisin walnut bread and it's divine for toast in the morning.
I don't care if they put an extra surcharge on stuff. The service is great.
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| Name: |
muddauber
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| Subject: |
Catherine are you serious?
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Date:
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1/5/2009 1:11:40 PM
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We checked it out and bought a few items last week. The building is rather small at this time to accommodate future growth. Hopefully the design plans already do that. The stone drive is a real danger. Not sure how that got by inspectors, as there is no way our 81 year old Mom could safely walk into the market. Not without good assistance. Thought all public places had to hold to the Americans With Disabilities Act. Oh well, that's between them and their insurance company when they get sued.
It is out of our way, but I will surely try to get those special things when I am over that way.
I hope that do well, but doubt the area will sustain it. Would like to be proved wrong, as we all benefit the more draw there is to our areas.
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| Name: |
HOT ROD
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| Subject: |
Catherine are you serious?
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Date:
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1/5/2009 1:31:34 PM
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Stare into the light and repeat after me.....
Frozen is better than fresh
Frozen is better than fresh
Frozen is better than fresh
Frozen is better than fresh
Good.... now try this one
Over-priced is better than affordable
Over-priced is better than affordable
Over-priced is better than affordable
Over-priced is better than affordable
Very good, you're almost there. Here's one more
Let's get rid of the rabble
Let's get rid of the rabble
Let's get rid of the rabble
Let's get rid of the rabble
Excellent! Now I'm going to count to 10 and clap my hands, and when you wake up, you'll believe exactly what we want you to believe.
10...9...8...7...6...5...4...3...2...1... WAKE UP!!
Thanks for visiting today; would you like a free Russell Lands tote bag? Oh, and don't forget to spit on any poor people you see; after all, they're not as good as you or I, so why should we care about them at all?
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| Name: |
water_watcher
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| Subject: |
You need to look up "slander"
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Date:
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1/5/2009 1:32:00 PM
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I am not going to get in a debate with you .... read your own posts .... yoou say "i have said" and refer many times to the things you told or said to other people that had no basis of fact. You even said in one of your posts ... I can't prove this but have "said" many times ....
Slander is speaking badly about another or a company that injures their reputation when there is no basis of fact. You said you do not have the facts and can not prove it. Yes ... what you are writing would be considered liable. It seems you need to be consulting with a good attorney before RL knocks on your door.
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there you go with the class envy again. It has nothing do do with poor people. you shop where you want and others will as well. It is not about price alone .... but rather value. value is convienence, quality, service, selection, etc. Do you sometimes pay more for those items .... sure. But if that is value to to the consumer and they are willing to pay ... who are you to say they are wrong and by doing so are spitting on poor people.
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| Name: |
8hcap
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| Subject: |
You need to look up "slander"
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Date:
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1/5/2009 2:01:33 PM
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Now Catherine, you need to remember the posts you have made accusing RL of all kinds of grave desecration, illegal hazardous waste disposal and the like.
When I built (during the worst of times (2004-2005)) I compared the quality and pricing for materials and in general both were better at teh Do It centers than I could find in Birmingham. Of course it helped that I had a builder that hand picked all the lumber!!
8
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| Name: |
Talullahhound
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| Subject: |
Catherine are you serious?
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Date:
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1/5/2009 2:04:54 PM
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How did we go from fresh food to spitting on poor people???
Let's pretend that Catherine's is just a quality food market and isn't developed by RL. Would you still have those of us shopping there spitting on poor people???
"poor" like "wealthy" is a relative term. I don't think you find any "poor" people living on Lake Martin, by my definition of "poor". Would you feel better about truning Lake Martin into a welfare estate? Would you feel better if RL mandated "low income" housing on LM? Maybe you'd like to see the entire shoreline developed into "affordable" condos?
You know, I grew up on the East Coast and have always lived near either the ocean or a lake, and in my experience, waterfront property is always in demand and therefore always sells at a premium. And as my generation retires, you are going to see the demand for waterfront soar and the prices will go with it. LM gets a lot of play as a good place to retire.
I'm sure that a lot of people whose families leased or owned lake cabins here on LM are upset about the lake changing, but it is going to change. Change doesn't necessarily mean change for the bad if it is done intelligently. I like the little Russell cabins too, and would love to see some people come in and restore them. But, too often they are falling apart with no improvements. And that makes them ripe for change.
Not every new house on the lake is a mansion. My house cetainly isn't. And my next door neighbors are planning a new house this year and I don't think they are planning on building a mansion. And several other houses on my slough have had remodeling done and they aren't mansions either.
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| Name: |
water_watcher
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| Subject: |
Catherine are you serious?
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Date:
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1/5/2009 2:30:29 PM
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You know ... for a democrat you are not half bad. I actually find myself agreeing with you more than against recently.
I think you are really a conservative democrat in the closet. :)
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| Name: |
Council Roc Doc
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| Subject: |
Catherine are you serious?
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Date:
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1/5/2009 3:09:26 PM
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How is the wine selection?
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| Name: |
Swimmer27
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| Subject: |
i challenge Hound to a .......
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Date:
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1/5/2009 3:13:04 PM
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...taste test. You go to Cathies and get what you want and I will go to the Dadeville Pig and get simular items. Once prepared, I would bet my house you can't tell the difference!! Only elite snobs enjoy paying more for the same. I will be sure the chef uses some of that $30/bottle Olive oil you like too.
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| Name: |
Catherine
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| Subject: |
Shall I post the coordinates?
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Date:
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1/5/2009 3:43:16 PM
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That graveyard is still there, down Wicker Point Road.
And those dumpsites are still there, in Trillium, Willow Point, and scattered here and there in-between.
Those don't exist because of "my opinion," and it isn't slander or libel if it is fact.
Which it is.
Which is also why they've never said anything to deny their existence.
Why don't you call and ask them if they exist, or ever did? Depending on their answer, I might just take you on a tour of some of them? Winter would be the best time to do it, especially the graveyard.
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| Name: |
LLMS
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| Subject: |
i challenge Hound to a .......
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Date:
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1/5/2009 3:52:37 PM
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Give me a break... So everybody who shops at whole foods, fresh market, green valley cafe, and Catherine's are snobs? Why so bitter?
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| Name: |
Bob
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| Subject: |
i challenge Hound to a .......
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Date:
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1/5/2009 3:58:11 PM
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Yes...you are a snob...so am I...lets not bother with these "little people"...let them eat Piggly Wiggly....
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| Name: |
Swimmer27
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| Subject: |
I hope RL sues Catherine
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Date:
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1/5/2009 4:42:46 PM
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That way the TRUTH WILL COME OUT! Because as I have pointed out here for years also, the truth is the perfect defense against libel and/or slander. In the decade I have been posting here I have been threatened with and by more lawyers than the average Joe can name....lol. There is no telling how many RL employees read this forum daily. I have never seen anybody claiming to represent RL defend them. Well I don't count the recent addition of bamalum because I view CH differently than I do RL.
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| Name: |
Swimmer27
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| Subject: |
Not at all.
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Date:
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1/5/2009 4:58:13 PM
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If you choose to go to any place and pay a premium that is your choice. Have at it, I couldn't care less. What I AM saying is that it is about preperation. I can guarentee you that the meat at the pig is as good or better than anything dear ole cathy has. I have always felt lucky we have such good meat locally. As for produce, if it dont look fresh I don't buy it. Pretty simple.
Full disclosure, I know most of the Butcher family and think very highly of them, but if they didn't sell good meat I wouldn't buy it.
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| Name: |
longtimer
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| Subject: |
Cabins
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Date:
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1/5/2009 5:30:12 PM
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"I like the little Russell cabins too, and would love to see some people come in and restore them. But, too often they are falling apart with no improvements."
And whose fault is that? EVERY Russell cabin is rented from, and thus owned by, Russell Lands. That makes Russell Lands the landlord, and thereby responsible for ALL repairs and improvements. So if you don't like the dilapidated and unimproved state of the Russell cabins, there is just one entity you can blame: Russell Lands.
The question, of course, is why would Russell Lands let THEIR cabins fall into such a state of disrepair? The only answer I can think of is that they don't care about pleasing their CUSTOMERS who rent their cabins. And why don't they care about those customers enough to maintain the cabins, but they care enough about others to make various "improvements" and even build upscale marketplaces for them to shop? Again, the only answer I can come up with is their level of care is directly related to how much money you care to give them. That's not customer service, that's elitism.
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| Name: |
Lakey
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| Subject: |
Cabins
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Date:
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1/5/2009 5:41:01 PM
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Are they now being accused of being slum lords. I guess that is based more on property condition than ability to pay......... It amazes me that people are willing to pay those amounts to rent some of those cabins.
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| Name: |
longtimer
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| Subject: |
Value
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Date:
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1/5/2009 5:45:33 PM
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"value is convienence, quality, service, selection, etc."
Speak for yourself, but here's something that might shock you: you are NOT the "voice of the people" around here. A voice, yes, but no more important than anyone else, and your OPINIONS hold no more water.
As for "true value," there have been posts in the past that get into this topic. And the best of them point out that true value rarely has anything to do with money. What some value is getting away from those things that you can't seem to live without. In the old days, those people had the lake, because your kind wouldn't come here; it was too far and the roads got muddy when it rained and there weren't enough people to cook for you and clean for you and entertain you.
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| Name: |
longtimer
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| Subject: |
Cabins
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Date:
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1/5/2009 5:49:56 PM
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What's wrong with the cabins? The best moments of my life have been spent in some of those cabins. Three bedroom and two baths have always been plenty, even on those nights when we've had close to 30 people there. No, they aren't fancy, but the people who love them aren't looking for fancy, they are looking for a roof over their head when they come to the lake. Not much to show off, but showing off is for other people.
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| Name: |
Lakey
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| Subject: |
Cabins
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Date:
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1/5/2009 6:04:47 PM
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Don't attack me all I said was that it amazes me that epoiple would pay that much rent. Maybe with all of the houses on the market and rates down people will starting buying and rates will drop........wait..... isthat part of a business cycle???????
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| Name: |
Talullahhound
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| Subject: |
Not at all.
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Date:
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1/5/2009 6:20:40 PM
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Don't misunderstand me, I'm not condemning the Piggly Wiggly or the Winn Dixie or saying that they are deficient in any way. I think their produce departments leave something to be desired most of the time, but that is true of most grocery stores. As far as meat goes, I don't think they sell prime beef. I will grant you that preparation does take you pretty far at times, but it's hard to beat prime beef. And they don't have much of a selection of fish. But, I've had good pork from the grocery stores and the chicken has been fine.
I don't think the bakeries can compare. Now I could probably bake much of the stuff they sell if I was so inclined, but frankly, I like the convenience of buying a good artisan loaf. And the grocery store in Alex City don't seem to carry much in the way of organic dairy. And I'm not stuck on organic necessarily, but I am trying not to load up on chemicals.
And yeah, I'm guilty of liking a really good bottle of olive oil and I do tend to be a bit of a snob about balsamic vinegar. And I was really pleased to find some tubed anchovy paste in Catherine's the other day, because I like the depth it adds to sauces and dressings.
But, as someone else said, if you are happy shopping at the Pig or Winn Dixie and they have everything you want, then no big deal, skip Catherine's. I won't look down on you. I'll even come over for dinner if you invite me.. LOL
You are not going to trick me into a cooking contest Swim.... for all I know, you may be a professional chef.
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| Name: |
Talullahhound
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| Subject: |
Catherine are you serious?
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Date:
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1/5/2009 6:22:56 PM
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I don't drink so I haven't checked it out. But, I suspect it's probably pretty good. There was a man in there the other day and the wine manager was helping him select a bottle.
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| Name: |
wix
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| Subject: |
LTL,
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Date:
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1/5/2009 6:46:02 PM
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me thinks you just got out classed......
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| Name: |
Bob
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| Subject: |
LTL,
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Date:
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1/5/2009 6:58:48 PM
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Swimmer...you can NOT be serious. I bought four Cowboy Cut Ribeyes at Caterines this weekend. While the cost was over 80 bucks the meat was "Prime Beef". That is the top 1% of all Beef and is rarely found outside of restaurants due to demand. Now if you tell me the "Pig" has Prime Beef...I am done with Catherines...
Challenge me here if you like but you will only show ignorance on the subject...ask your Buther friends and they will tell you...I also got Sashimi Grade Tuna...got that at the Pig...or the Crawfish...or the Wild Caught Salmon...puhllleeezeee
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| Name: |
Swimmer27
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| Subject: |
Now Bob
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Date:
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1/5/2009 8:10:49 PM
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The only use I have for crawfish is as a catfish bait and I take all my fish cooked.
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wake up ... times have changed ... for the better. and it will continue to grow. you can live in the past and hope those days come back (but they won't) or you can embrace the change. Read the book "who moved my cheese"
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the only restoring they need will be done by a bull doser .... the sooner the better to build nice homes.
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| Name: |
water_watcher
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| Subject: |
i challenge Hound to a .......
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Date:
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1/5/2009 8:18:40 PM
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sounds like a good challenge .... can I be the tasting judge? :)
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| Name: |
Bob
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| Subject: |
Now Bob
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Date:
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1/5/2009 8:37:14 PM
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I am shocked...probably like your steaks well done I am guessing...a little Heinz on the side :)
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| Name: |
8hcap
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| Subject: |
Shall I post the coordinates?
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Date:
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1/5/2009 8:37:25 PM
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Yes please do and i will tour them by 1/21. The fact remains that you said you had not accused RL of any illegal activity and your past posts do not bear this out. I am not angry with you and I do not even know the new regime at RL but I do live in a Russell Community and am very happy with it. In fact I very much enjoy the pot stirring you generally start, but when you start such things there may be a price to pay.
8
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| Name: |
Lady
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| Subject: |
Wine selection
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Date:
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1/5/2009 9:02:31 PM
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There is an employee who is a real expert on wine. He can help you with any questions. I was very impressed. I've not seen anyone that informed in a very long time and that has been in large cities.
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| Name: |
Catherine
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| Subject: |
You are correct, and
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Date:
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1/5/2009 9:27:42 PM
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I apologize. What I meant to imply was that I had not been accusatory in THIS discussion about Russell Lands.
I have accused them in the past, and I still stand by those accusations. Basically, that there are dumpsites that they do not discuss, because they do not want people to know what is in them, or that they even exist. And that they desecrated a cemetary near Wicker Point during a logging about 2-3 years ago, and to my knowledge, still have done nothing to repair that damage, or take responsibility for it. The desecration may very well have been accidental, but to allow the damage to remain with no attempt to repair or bear responsibility is shameful, in my opinion. Were those my relatives they ran over with a bulldozer, they would never hear the end of it.
As I told Bob, I will provide the coordinates later this week, as I'll need to gather them for the cemetary, and dig them out of my GPS for the dumpsites. These coordinates have already been "indirectly" posted here before, when we were all looking at the aerial photos of the alleged sites from Google Earth (GE provides coordinates in every photo), but when I get them together, I will provide them to you. If you do investigate, I would be very interested in your opinions on what you find.
The cemetary particularly will stir your emotions. At least it does mine.
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| Name: |
Lakey
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| Subject: |
LTL,
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Date:
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1/6/2009 6:31:26 AM
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The pig does have "blalk angus prime beef" the only problem is that it is $4 cheaper per pound.
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| Name: |
Swimmer27
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| Subject: |
Hey now,
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Date:
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1/6/2009 8:54:36 AM
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dont go introducing relevant FACTS into the conversaation.
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Prime or Choice? I wasn't aware that any supermarkets carried USDA Prime. I thought most of the stores that carried the Black Angus were carrying Choice. I'll check it out the next time I'm over by Dadeville Pig.
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| Name: |
Lakey
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| Subject: |
Prime beef
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Date:
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1/7/2009 11:30:22 AM
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I think you are right and that prime is only sold in restaurants. Since Catherines has a rest. maybe thay can sell prime.
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