| Name: |
lotowner
- 
|
|
| Subject: |
Bad Loans Everywhere
|
|
Date:
|
1/25/2011 6:52:04 PM
|
Church Foreclosures Surge, Seen as 'Next Wave' in Crisis
ROSEVILLE, Calif.—Residential and commercial real-estate owners aren't the only ones losing their properties to foreclosure. The past few years have seen a rapid acceleration in the number of churches losing their sanctuaries because they can't pay the mortgage.
Just as homeowners borrowed too much or built too big during boom times, many churches did the same and now are struggling as their congregations shrink and collections fall owing to rising unemployment and a weak economy
|
| Name: |
Talullahhound
-
|
|
| Subject: |
Bad Loans Everywhere
|
|
Date:
|
1/25/2011 9:25:07 PM
|
So what? They don't pay taxes, and they don't contribute to the economy.
|
| Name: |
lotowner
-
|
|
| Subject: |
Bad Loans Everywhere
|
|
Date:
|
1/25/2011 10:52:10 PM (updated 1/25/2011 10:55:35 PM)
|
I'm having problems with your statement "they don't pay taxes or contribute to the economy" What does this have to do with foreclosure on church property. Who eats the non payment. The bank who holds the mortgage and shareholders. Church failure is a sympton of problems with members who do not contribute due to job loses, etc.
|
| Name: |
MartiniMan
-
|
|
| Subject: |
Mostly wrong about this Hound
|
|
Date:
|
1/26/2011 10:23:00 AM
|
Churches and religious organizations provide a significant boost to the economy. I will provide two very concrete examples although there are many more. First, they provide an extremely low-cost method of distribution of charitable giving to the poor. In some cases, like St. Vincent DePaul Society (a Catholic organization), it is almost entirely volunteer so close to all the money donated to them gets to the intended recipients. Obviously, providing low cost allocation of services and funds to the poor means they don't have to rely on the wildly inefficient government. Secondly, many religious organizations run very cost effective schools that are actually cheaper on a per student basis than most government schools. So they not only alleviate the burden on the government school system but do a much better job in many cases of producing graduates that will greatly contribute to society rather than being a burden. In 2009 over 6 million students attended private schools and if you use an average cost per student of $7,500 they save the government $45 billion every year in education costs alone.
As for your misstatement on taxes, the only taxes Churches do not pay are property taxes and income taxes (like any non-profit entity). However, every single employee of a religious organization has to pay federal, state, local and FICA taxes. Typically the largest single cost to a religious organization is their personnel costs. Unlike the Catholic Church, the vast majority of the people that work for a religious organization are paid employees. Even with the Catholic Church, only the religious (priests and consecrated) are not paid a salary. For every priest at our Church we have 3 or 4 paid employees. Also, if you look at the average working American they pay far more in income taxes than they do in real estate taxes.
So you are mostly wrong on the impact of religious organizations.....I could go on all day about the other positive impacts they have on our country but will stick to this point alone.
|
| Name: |
GoneFishin
-
|
|
| Subject: |
Hey MM
|
|
Date:
|
1/26/2011 12:09:42 PM
|
It is my understanding that priests do pay income tax and are covered under SS and medicare. The question is 1099 with deductions as independent contractor or W2 with the diocese reimbursing the priest expenses. I am not a Catholic so I am not speaking as an authority on church issues.
|
| Name: |
MartiniMan
-
|
|
| Subject: |
Hey MM
|
|
Date:
|
1/26/2011 12:16:40 PM
|
If they are paid a salary they do have to pay all the same taxes we do. However, my understanding is that most of them are either not paid or are paid a very nominal salary. They do get free room and board and all you have to do is take on chastity and obedience. :-)
|
| Name: |
Talullahhound
-
|
|
| Subject: |
Bad Loans Everywhere
|
|
Date:
|
1/26/2011 6:58:00 PM
|
As I was saying, who cares? There are too many churches. They need to consolidate anyway.
|
| Name: |
comrade
-
|
|
| Subject: |
Bad Loans Everywhere
|
|
Date:
|
1/26/2011 7:04:41 PM
|
Feeling pretty confident with your place in the Universe, huh? (You'll be lucky if you hear the thunderclap before the lightning hits........)
|
| Name: |
Barneget
-
|
|
| Subject: |
Hound
|
|
Date:
|
1/26/2011 8:14:00 PM
|
Just wondering, what makes you think we have too many churches? If my memory is functioning, you posted directly, or insinuated strongly that most Federal Government employees are overworked. You are the same person that professed extensive knowledge of the food service industry (you have an MBA), yet I don't recall, nor can I find where you attributed restuarant business failures to the sheer number of them. Maybe, you could take some of your experience managing a "spend to zero" budget, and assist some of these struggling churches. Or, maybe you are stone cold toward them because their good works are in diametric opposition to the central planning culture you flourished in for 30 years.
|
| Name: |
roswellric
-
|
|
| Subject: |
Hey MM
|
|
Date:
|
1/26/2011 9:35:30 PM
|
That chastity thing should be worth a BIG tax deduction. BTW for you Catholics where in the Bible is that? I can't find it :-)
|
| Name: |
roswellric
-
|
|
| Subject: |
Bad Loans Everywhere
|
|
Date:
|
1/26/2011 9:39:09 PM
|
Sadly true. There is too much money involved but that is nothing new under the sun. The clues are the "John Doe Ministries" or the "Church of Fred" and the money raisers that spend more time raising $$ than teaching the Bible.
|
Huh? I'm exercising my First Amendment Right to free speech. You believe in the First Amendment don't you?
|
| Name: |
MartiniMan
-
|
|
| Subject: |
Hey MM
|
|
Date:
|
1/27/2011 11:19:35 AM
|
You have to look at what St. Paul said about chastity and being unmarried.......something both he and the big man practiced. What is interesting about the issue of chastity is that priests are really not asked to do anything that any unmarried person is asked to do, to abstain from sex if they are unmarried.
If you ask a priest they will tell you that chastity is the easier of their vows. Nothing compared to the vow of obedience. Gotta go where they tell you to go and do what they tell you to do......now that is a challenge.
|
| Name: |
MartiniMan
-
|
|
| Subject: |
Bad Loans Everywhere
|
|
Date:
|
1/27/2011 11:54:13 AM
|
Hound, I can't really comment on whether there are too many Churches but I can tell you the Catholic Church has done a lot of consolidation in recent years for a variety of reasons. The biggest one being that a great many of the facilities were very old and were maintenance hogs so they were consolidated into a single, larger facility. I would say that consolidation will occur if the members don't provide sufficient financial support. That is just an economic reality. So the market will decide whether there are too many, too few, where they should be located, etc.
|
| Name: |
Barneget
-
|
|
| Subject: |
Hound
|
|
Date:
|
1/27/2011 6:12:28 PM
|
Yes, I do support our First Amendment. Happy to see you do as well. Just wanted to get some clarity on your opinion that there are too many churches. My referencing some old hound posts was just for background.
|
|
Login
Home
New Post
Search
Off-Topic Forum
Reply
