Name:	architect -	Reply
Subject:	There is political hardball and...
Date:	9/11/2019 11:15:51 PM

there is political thuggery.

NC governor Roy Cooper vetoed the budget passed by the Republican controlled legislature and it has been a top political issue for weeks with the GOP refusing to compromise or reconsider the cuts to education and tax givaways to corporations that were part of the budget.  The House has threatened on several occasions to override the veto but were thawarted by the Democrats who have the strength to deny the 60% vote required.  Yesterday the speaker and Chair of the committee that sets the agenda announced that there would be no votes today.  Most Democrtas were absent (many attending a 9-11 memorial with Gov Cooper), but the fix was in and the Republicans knew it.  At 8:30 am without warning the speaker called for a vote to override the veto.  With only 62 0f the 120 members present (only 2 more than the required for a quorum, the house voted 53 Republicans to 9 Democrats to override the veto!!  There is political hardball and political thuggery...this is a fine example of the latter.

But, for Democrats all is not lost...the Senate still has to vote and the state courts have tossed out the districting for US house and state legislative districts due to partisan gerrymandering (in 2018, 52% of the votes for the House candidates were for the Democrat but only 3 of the 13 seats went to Democrats)  and ordered new un-gerrymandered maps be submitted before next years election.  In 2020 the GOP is likely to pay a high price for their 2019 skulduggery!

Name:	CRD -	Reply
Subject:	There is political hardball and...
Date:	9/12/2019 5:34:50 PM

What rules did the NC Repubs break?

Name:	Subrosa -	Reply
Subject:	There is political hardball and...
Date:	9/13/2019 7:50:34 AM

Maybe people didn’t vote for more Dems because of their crazy, left wing antics; I’m afraid to because Dems are so into groupthink, if you vote one in, you could be stepping into liberal quick stand.

Name:	architect -	Reply
Subject:	The rules of fairplay and human decency!
Date:	9/13/2019 9:32:54 AM

Both parties are guilty of it, but the GOP in recent years has made it a precise science and part of their SOP!

Just because something is not illegal doesn't mean it is right!

Name:	architect -	Reply
Subject:	Rosie
Date:	9/13/2019 9:42:47 AM

in the 2018 general election 10 million more people voted for democrats than republicans and the dems picked up 40 seats, in 2010 the repubs got 3 million more votes than ther dems and picked up 64 seats...do you consider that good, do you consider that fair, do you think that is something to be proud of?

In 2018 52% of the congressional votes in NC went to the democratic candidates but they got only 23% of the seats up for election (3 of 13)...do you really, as a fair minded human being, consider that the way things should be in this nation?  Is eternal minority rule something that should be built-in to the national business plan?  Can you even fathom that there may be a point where such results could become dangerous? 

Name:	wix -	Reply
Subject:	ARCH-KRAP
Date:	9/13/2019 10:17:24 AM

Dimokraps cluster in ghetto type metro areas and they all vote at the direction of a masser.  Representation in governmental bodies tend to be geographical divisions.  Ya wanna all pile in a ghetto....go right ahead.....smoke ya dope, kill your neighbor, breed hourly, vote the way you are instructed, collect yo welfare.  Ya wanna be an American....ya gotta change yo ways......

Now, am I a white supremacist, or just a common ole racist.....yo call.  TRUTH HURTS....

Name:	phil -	Reply
Subject:	The rules of fairplay and human decency!
Date:	9/13/2019 11:03:43 AM

And you are so good at finding lack of fairplay and decency, until someone as a D involved in their title.  This from the man( I assume ) who can not even locate a single lie that Obama told in 8 years of office.

Snopes and politico I doubt would even back you up on your claims.

Name:	phil -	Reply
Subject:	Rosie
Date:	9/13/2019 11:04:57 AM

pot kettle goose gander coonman ivy.  Ds cheat just like Rs - you just dont point it out.

Name:	Buteye -	Reply
Subject:	Rosie
Date:	9/13/2019 11:24:06 AM (updated 9/13/2019 11:24:57 AM)

To read the words "fair minded human being" coming from you is a "joke".

Name:	CRD -	Reply
Subject:	Rosie
Date:	9/13/2019 11:44:24 AM

No Archie, a simple cure would be for the Dem platform appeal to more than the urban voter.  Until that changes, expect more of the same.

Name:	CRD -	Reply
Subject:	The rules of fairplay and human decency!
Date:	9/13/2019 12:20:04 PM

You mean kinda like Nadler not willing to call on the IG to testify on his latest report?  State and national politics are a blood sport.  If you want to play nice, you won't last long in this profession.

Name:	architect -	Reply
Subject:	What the he!! does your strange post
Date:	9/13/2019 4:54:33 PM (updated 9/13/2019 5:09:53 PM)

have to do with the actions of the NC legislature which was the reason this discussion started?

The uneven and skewed results of the recent elections is almost 100% attributable to Republican gerrymandring and packing rather than what sub-group either party appeals to!  Appeals to the ''ghetto'' is not the intention of the Democrats any more than appealing to ''white-supremecists'' is the intention of the Republicans.

That being said, does it ever occur to you that the Republicans might have maintained the House majority if they had made even a gnat's azz effort to appeal to at least some of the majority that is not part of the right wing, gun totin, woman hating, Trump worshipping minority that the GOP has gone all out to embrace?

Name:	CRD -	Reply
Subject:	What the he!! does your strange post
Date:	9/13/2019 9:56:53 PM

Let me simplify things for you ol Arch.  Read Rucho vs Common Cause.  "Partisan gerrymandering is nothing new" - Chief Justice Roberts stated.   "Nor is frustration with it"......it is a political issue, not a legal issue.  Why would political parties that WIN elections not attempt to influence the size and shape of districts?  Maximization of advantage. I see nothing wrong with it, and despite Republican redistricting advantages over the lasat two decades, Dems had big House majorities in 06, 08 and 18.  How do you explain that Archie? 

 Dem losers either blame the Electoral College, or gerrymandering, or Russia, for their continued woes and judging from last nights debate, it will continue.

Name:	architect -	Reply
Subject:	No, let me simplify things for you CRD
Date:	9/13/2019 10:44:14 PM (updated 9/14/2019 12:14:18 AM)

I believe if you check your census numbers and state legislative stats you will see that the current Republican dominance of the redisitrcting levers was, contrary to what you implied in your last post, not in place prior to 2010.  Before 2010 while they called the shots the Democrats were almost as bad as the Republicans in the unfair use of gerrymandering.  Unfortunately for the Democrats they were asleep at the switch in 2010 and the Republicans gained enough seats in state houses to dominate the redistricting in 2011.  They were helped by the fact that by then computers had become so advanced they had the political scoop house by house rather than by just census tracts.  Republican politicians took the stats and ran with them literally choosing their voters rather than the voters choosing them.

Check the facts for yourself.  You need to be a little more careful before popping off CRC.

As for Justice Robert's comments about the legality of partisan districting...well again, just because it is legal doesn't make it right!

Now in closing, in the future will you still ''see no problem'' with the majority using their political advantage to further enhance their position when it is the Democrats doing it?  Tell the truth now CRD!

Name:	CRD -	Reply
Subject:	No, let me simplify things for you CRD
Date:	9/14/2019 6:13:00 AM

Gerrymandering was common in the colonies.  The framers knew this and were very familiar with it.  If you want proportional representation Archie, you on the left are not going to get it through use of the judicial branch.  The USSC got it right, control of partisan gerrymandering is not a judicial branch oversight responsibility.  It is a legislative branch issue and state legislatures and Congress have the responsibility to address it.  

Regarding which party was in control of the "redistricting lever" 2 decades ago, I will gladly provide my source.  

Name:	architect -	Reply
Subject:	How long oh Lord how long
Date:	9/14/2019 8:06:50 AM (updated 9/14/2019 8:14:18 AM)

First,    Please do send me your sources that support your belief that the Dems commanded congress during times when the Repubs called the shots on redistricting!  I am prepared for a long wait!

Second,    While looking for info that is non-existant please read your post and then read mine CRD.  You claimed (incorrectly) that even though Repups held the same advantage for 2 decades the Dem still had majorities.  That is simply not a fact...look it up! Dems controlled more state houses prior to 2010 and they used their redistricting advantage to dominate congress too.  When that changed to advantage GOP the gerrymandering reversed and the Repubs took over.  Those are the facts. 

Third,    I agree that gerrymandering and other forms of politically based districting has been around for a long time.  The point is I think it is not fair or good practice then or now.  Obviouslly you think it is fine...at least as long as it is the Republicans are calling the shots.  Now, how about an answer to my question...will you consider it just as benign a practice when it is the Democrats doing it?

Name:	CRD -	Reply
Subject:	How long oh Lord how long
Date:	9/14/2019 10:21:02 AM

Majorities in 06, 08 and 18.  Did you miss that Arch?

I would have no problem with Dem partisan gerrymandering.  The result would be that the real producers in that district would move out and leave you with districts with no real economic backbone and elected legislators that believe government exists with a nation attached rather than vice versa.  Voters get what they vote for, simple as that.  

Link for above graphic.  Hope your wait was pleasant.

http://www.ncsl.org/research/about-state-legislatures/partisan-composition.aspx

Name:	architect -	Reply
Subject:	Just two teeny weeny little problems CRD
Date:	9/15/2019 2:53:17 PM (updated 9/15/2019 3:03:25 PM)

1/   Look at 2010 on your chart...what do you see?

2/   It is not the number of seats held by each party but where they are seated...a 10 to 1 GOP advantage in WY (and that is about what is usually is) is not quite as significant vis a vis districting as even a narrow 50  to 49 GOP advantage in PA.  Until 2010 the Democrats, even though they held fewer seats, held a controlling majority in the larger states that send the most members to Congress. 

In 2019 the Democrats started to dig out of the hole the have been in since 2010 by picking up almost 400 seats. Those gains plus any additional gains in 2020 will be reflected in the 2021 redistricting.  You just might get the opportunity to express your lack of concern with the new order and watch to see whether your projected negative results come to pass.

Name:	phil -	Reply
Subject:	How long oh Lord how long
Date:	9/16/2019 8:53:17 AM

Dems controlled more state houses prior to 2010 and they used their redistricting advantage to dominate congress too.

And I wonder how many posts you can find that you have posted complaing about Dem redistricting - I bet you can not find 1.

Goose /Gander Pot/Kettle Coonman/Ivy