Name:   copperline - Subject:   Trump the birther Date:   9/17/2016 9:11:19 PM

Buteye, let me first tell you that I do talk in terms of groups like ‘conservatives’, ‘left- and right-wingers”.   That’s on purpose, I don’t want to sound like I am criticizing a particular person’s opinions…   All this name-calling has got to stop, and I’m trying to do my part not to contribute to it.     And I’ve stopped contributing in many posts simply because I was tired of being insulted instead of talked to, other times I just ran out of something I wanted to say.       

    I do believe that the birther movement was about  getting people in the US to see their first Black President as an imposter… he was accused of not being an American citizen.     Some conservatives continue to say he has been a secret Muslim infiltrator bent on dismantling the US Constitution.   So Trump’s birther campaign was mostly successful in driving public opinion, and he used it to launch his new career as Presidential Candidate.  

      The problem for me is the myths and out-right fabrications that Trump has told us normally would be something conservatives should be judging him by… but to my amazement, I am seeing reasonable people accepting any lame excuse for tolerating Trump’s actions, statements,…..I have to say this guy is masterfully playing out the marketing game of the century here.    

                Regarding the Obama administration, I disagree with the way you characterize those allegations.  I particularly don’t know what you meant when you say “he warned us of hope & change”.   His campaign was during years when it was a good idea to encourage people in the US to not give up.    In the mind of liberals like me, the idea is that if people give up hope, they can turn on each other.   So, it’s always been guiding notion for Democratic Socialists, Progressives, Left – wingers, whatever you want to call us to look at our domestic economy with this in mind.   An international financial meltdown was threatening to bring this country into another depression.  The Auto Industry was going belly up.  I’m not going to indict the guy for trying to get the people to be hopeful.  It’s better than encouraging people to stock up on guns and be ready to shoot your neighbors any day now.

                Anyway, hearing the Prez talking about hope and change seems pretty normal…it’s

 what every President does for a living.  

You & I might also disagree about how bad the world is right now, at least on the domestic/economic front.   I think our economy is growing, slowly, in a positive direction.   Before you say we should be doing better, it’s worth noting that no large countries are experiencing a lot of growth right now.   I don’t think we can supercharge the economy and do much better without taking too many risks.   But I’m not an economist, and pretty much stay clear of trying to talk about that stuff.  

You’re right, I can’t address each one of those things you bring up here.   I can say I disagree with you about how Obama handled the Iran Nuclear deal.   I think it was the right thing to do because it meant we would not go to war with Iran… and Iran was convinced to not become a nuclear threat.   So what will happen in years to come?   We will have to continue to try to resolve with Iran somehow, both of us backing away from the edge.   We actually need each other to stabilize the middle east over the long term.   And we did not give them money for prisoners… we had their money that had been frozen for many, many years since the earliest sanctions… It was their money, we didn’t steal it from them.   The prisoner swap was part of an agreement that was going to go forward anyway… we were smart enough to use the extra leverage to get a couple of lucked out Americans back home.   That’s not a bad deal.   Bet their families are happy about it.

But the best part, for me, is this.   At this moment in history, Kim Jung Un is about to be able to launch a missile based nuclear weapon with a range that goes far beyond his borders.   And North Korea, as a national government, isn’t rational about what they might do.  

So at this moment, we are free to devote our attention to dealing with North Korea rather than North Korea AND Iran.   I think that has worked out pretty well for us.     The concerns I have about the hair-trigger situations like this one is the main reason I think it would be dangerous to put Donald Trump into the Oval Office.